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Old 10-21-2015, 10:06 AM   #41
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The different way people look at the same thing is really interesting to me. For example, in my own case I have great sympathy for my cousin and feel he had serious money issues.

Now, you mentioned spendthrifts, or perhaps people that are always in debt and buying things they know they can't afford or ever pay for, whether it's new shoes or bags or perhaps a new car every year. Yet, I personally don't have sympathy for these spendy types and think," They just need to get their crap together." But really, isn't it just two sides of the same coin? Why do I have sympathy for the hoarders and yet almost look down on the over spenders? This development with my cousin had made me question my own attitude about money.
Yes, agree. I don't have any sympathy for my inlaws. They think they are doing just fine and certainly not in need of sympathy. Besides we stand to gain. As always, balance is key. I don't understand people who continue to save money when retired. Underspending a bit in case of a downturn is one thing but systematic long term underspending certainly isn't my style
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:59 AM   #42
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Yes, agree. I don't have any sympathy for my inlaws. They think they are doing just fine and certainly not in need of sympathy. Besides we stand to gain. As always, balance is key. I don't understand people who continue to save money when retired. Underspending a bit in case of a downturn is one thing but systematic long term underspending certainly isn't my style
By the time prodigious savers get to retirement, the habit is so ingrained that it's difficult to surmount - assuming they even want to spend after so many years of focusing on needs vs. wants.

As others have written, balance is the key - and you must establish this balance during your working/earning years. Some folks use a set savings goal then spend the remainder, while others start with a spending goal and save the remainder. Doesn't matter how you approach the problem, but being at either end of the saving/spending spectrum is not good. Life is meant to be lived - you work to live, not live to work (or save).
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:13 PM   #43
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We only get one life, and it seems to me that a happy and fulfilling life is something we all wish for. As long as someone's life is happy and fulfilling, and does no harm to himself or others, I don't care how much he chooses to spend or not spend. It's not my business.

(And the same for women but I really hate using "hir" instead of "him", and so on)

Some people just don't need to spend a lot to be content and happy. Some people do. To me it's just natural variation in individual human traits.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:26 PM   #44
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We speak a lot about LBYM here, but it is this forum that got me to loosen up a bit lately. Not this exact thread, but similar recent ones.

We took an overseas trip and had our 35 year old carpet replaced.

This is in lieu of out and out quitting (which I'm damn near close to doing today). Might as well spend some of that OMY cash and vacation time.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:04 PM   #45
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We speak a lot about LBYM here, but it is this forum that got me to loosen up a bit lately. Not this exact thread, but similar recent ones.

We took an overseas trip and had our 35 year old carpet replaced.

This is in lieu of out and out quitting (which I'm damn near close to doing today). Might as well spend some of that OMY cash and vacation time.
It's funny, but I've seen old carpets (and more often rugs) last many decades as compared to modern ones. High quality flooring is more likely than not to last a long time if well maintained. Unfortunately, newer construction is using more and more "builder grade" materials that will last 5-7 years. Likewise, people needing new carpets are reluctant to spend more money on carpet that will last a decade or more.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:10 PM   #46
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I've actually heard that, that carpeting doesn't last as long these days. I have some carpeting in my house that's about 30 years old, but truth be told, it NEEDS to be replaced! I just never got around to it because the house has more pressing needs. And, out in the boonies we're always tracking something in, and with animals, people eating in the living room, etc, something's always getting spilled, so we just throw an area rug over it and then get rid of that when it gets too ratty looking.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:35 PM   #47
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When we took up the carpet, there were places where the padding was just "dust".

We put up with that for 10 years. Kind of crazy, but very LBYM.

Nice to have padding under the feet. Maybe it will save my joints and be a value in the long run.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:59 PM   #48
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Great thread ... You all are super
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:53 PM   #49
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By the time prodigious savers get to retirement, the habit is so ingrained that it's difficult to surmount - assuming they even want to spend after so many years of focusing on needs vs. wants.

As others have written, balance is the key - and you must establish this balance during your working/earning years. Some folks use a set savings goal then spend the remainder, while others start with a spending goal and save the remainder. Doesn't matter how you approach the problem, but being at either end of the saving/spending spectrum is not good. Life is meant to be lived - you work to live, not live to work (or save).
Well put. I agree.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:59 PM   #50
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We only get one life, and it seems to me that a happy and fulfilling life is something we all wish for. As long as someone's life is happy and fulfilling, and does no harm to himself or others, I don't care how much he chooses to spend or not spend. It's not my business.

(And the same for women but I really hate using "hir" instead of "him", and so on)

Some people just don't need to spend a lot to be content and happy. Some people do. To me it's just natural variation in individual human traits.
Agree. I certainly don't care what other people who are not friends or relatives do, I just don't get it. I would never mention it to friends or relatives either. I understand that some (most?) people do not need to spend money to be happy. What I don't understand is the almost paranoid desire to save even hoard money if you don't want to ever spend it. Sooner or later you must either spend it or give it away.
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:09 PM   #51
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Agree. I certainly don't care what other people who are not friends or relatives do, I just don't get it. I would never mention it to friends or relatives either. I understand that some (most?) people do not need to spend money to be happy. What I don't understand is the almost paranoid desire to save even hoard money if you don't want to ever spend it. Sooner or later you must either spend it or give it away.
No, can't do that. <best Gollum voice> " My PRECIOUS...."
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:33 PM   #52
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I don't understand people who continue to save money when retired. Underspending a bit in case of a downturn is one thing but systematic long term underspending certainly isn't my style
Yeah, that's something I need to hear. I lean towards being too frugal (one of the reasons I'm here, so it definitely has its upside), but I need to remember the whole goal is to enjoy your life, not squeeze every penny out of it, then die rich. That's rather pointless.

It may be different for people who save for posterity -- for their spouse, their children, or for charity. In that case, piling up some more money in the bank makes more sense, because there is a meaning to it. That wasn't the case with the OP's story, but it might be for others. I've heard several stories about people who lived in extremely modest houses, and then left all their money (sometimes over a million) to charity. There's something noble about that.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:33 PM   #53
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The thread title is about the "struggle between saving and spending", which means the person is torn between spending or not. I think many people are beyond that, meaning they do not think or care about spending at all, and it is not about financial insecurity. They simply do not give a damn about living in squalor. These people usually have no friends or social contacts. Nobody sets foot in their house, and they also visit nobody. So, being isolated from normal people, they develop a sense of normalcy to their living condition and do not see anything wrong with it.

I guess one should not be too much of a recluse, in order to avoid falling into his own isolated sphere of lunacy.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:08 PM   #54
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I don't understand people who continue to save money when retired. Underspending a bit in case of a downturn is one thing but systematic long term underspending certainly isn't my style
I do understand them.

My parents had two good pensions which more than covered their expenses. After my father died, the survivor pensions were lower. My mother continued to LBHM and accumulate savings. Longevity risk was a concern for her. She grew up in the Depression so understood that financial catastrophes do occur. It was simply good risk management as far as she was concerned. She was also fiercely independent and would have hated to ask me for money.

I am of the same mindset myself. I have no problem investing in financial markets and alternative investments. I have no pension and there is nobody to bail me out if I run out of money. At least while I am in the retirement risk zone I will be trying to put something in savings each year.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:13 PM   #55
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The thread title is about the "struggle between saving and spending", which means the person is torn between spending or not. I think many people are beyond that, meaning they do not think or care about spending at all, and it is not about financial insecurity. They simply do not give a damn about living in squalor. These people usually have no friends or social contacts. Nobody sets foot in their house, and they also visit nobody. So, being isolated from normal people, they develop a sense of normalcy to their living condition and do not see anything wrong with it.

I guess one should not be too much of a recluse, in order to avoid falling into his own isolated sphere of lunacy.
Does not caring or thinking about spending comes from a lifetime of countless money decisions?...it's not the money itself..it's staying warm, eating healthy foods, having a hobby or two Can you become so used to denying yourself everyday things that pretty soon no item seems to be "worth" spending money on? I don't believe that people are born with a pre-set money bias and each person needs to find their own compass. Certainly if you live alone and friendless in squalor and yet have 600K you are not hurting anyone but yourself.

If my cousin had been living that way and had no one and no money, even though we were not friendly I would have reached out to help him. But maybe some posters here are correct and he didn't think he needed anything more in his life.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:41 PM   #56
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I think many people are beyond that, meaning they do not think or care about spending at all, and it is not about financial insecurity. They simply do not give a damn about living in squalor. These people usually have no friends or social contacts. Nobody sets foot in their house, and they also visit nobody. So, being isolated from normal people, they develop a sense of normalcy to their living condition and do not see anything wrong with it.

I guess one should not be too much of a recluse, in order to avoid falling into his own isolated sphere of lunacy.

Some do not always have a "choice" in the matter. For some seniors it's a slow downward spiral & many times is caused by undiagnosed mental illness or cognitive decline due to onset of some form of mild dementia. Paranoia and relates fears grow in scale etc etc.

Perhaps the way seniors age /. How they grow old in the future will change - living/being with children in old age, as is the case in Asia, or in community retirement environments such as those in the Netherlands be the new normal again. Maybe that can arrest some of these sort of cases.
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Old 10-22-2015, 02:11 AM   #57
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Perhaps the way seniors age /. How they grow old in the future will change - living/being with children in old age, as is the case in Asia, or in community retirement environments such as those in the Netherlands be the new normal again. Maybe that can arrest some of these sort of cases.
Hmm, that's quite an interesting theory. We used to live with my grandmother but then we moved to the US so she didn't have any children and grandchildren nearby. My uncle lives pretty far from her and could only visit once every 2-3 months. While she's been forgetful for as long as I can remember, she was doing okay when she was still active in her church group. However, due to health issues (physical), she was homebound for some time and it seemed to be a quick downward spiral into dementia from then.
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:02 AM   #58
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I don't understand people who continue to save money when retired. Underspending a bit in case of a downturn is one thing but systematic long term underspending certainly isn't my style
My grandparents were always pretty frugal, and a lot of that was probably from Depression-era thinking. Granddad grew up in a family of tenant farmers and was dirt-poor even before the Depression. Grandmom came from a fairly well-off family, where they had a city house, a farm, a car and a truck. She can remember them losing the farm and having to give up the car, but her Dad needed the truck to keep working.

Anyway, throughout the years, they always managed to save, spend less than they earn, etc, and that carried over even into retirement. Even though they both had pensions, plus social security, they saved. I think their goal was to make sure that my Mom and uncle, and perhaps me, would be able to get bailed out if we ever got in trouble...financial, medical, or whatever.

Grandmom had about $350K by last August, when she finally got too sick to live at home. We rushed her to the emergency room, and she went from there to a rehabilitation place, then to an assisted living facility, and then back into the emergency room, and finally to a nursing home next to the hospital. By the time she passed away in May, we had spent about $50,000, although about $14K of that was to remodel the bathroom to make it wheelchair accessible, and put in a walk in tub. Initially, we thought she'd get well enough to come back home.

The Medicare supplement had just run out, and that nursing home was going to start costing about $12,000 per month. At that rate, the remainder of Grandmom's nest egg could easily have been burned through in about two years. I think we only made one of those $12K payments, but then she died halfway through the month, so we got about half of it back.

So, I can understand why older people might be more concerned about hoarding money rather than splurging, worrying about that "rainy day". It may never come, but then again, it might. And, I think some people just get more cautious with money as they get older as well.
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:24 AM   #59
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So, I can understand why older people might be more concerned about hoarding money rather than splurging, worrying about that "rainy day". It may never come, but then again, it might. And, I think some people just get more cautious with money as they get older as well.
I can certainly understand a desire to save enough for end of life health care. That is rational. I can certainly understand saving in order to reasonably reduce the risk of running out of capital, especially early in retirement. But surely there must be some middle ground between "Splurging" and "hoarding"?

I don't understand buying day old bread to save a few cents when your net worth is $5million (my in laws). Again balance is key.
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Old 10-22-2015, 01:25 PM   #60
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.... But surely there must be some middle ground between "Splurging" and "hoarding"?

I don't understand buying day old bread to save a few cents when your net worth is $5million (my in laws). Again balance is key.
You reminded me of my mother, the Depression certainly made an impression on her, she would save a scrap of butter, and when I called her out on it, she would say "A penny saved is a penny earned".

The odd thing is she would the next day hire some guy to cut down a tree for $600 , when I could easily cut it down for free.

I think some behaviours were learned during the Depression, and they carried over forever, but new situations brought newer thinking on her part.
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