Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-09-2013, 11:47 AM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
Sometimes I wonder ... why we like to rank ourselves in the herd? Why does it matter so much?
Not everyone does by any means - based on The Millionaire Next Door among other evidence. However, it does seem to have become more common over my lifetime (associates with materialism?).

I'd guess those who do worry about "rankings" are certainly more vocal/visible that those who don't - so the phenomena seems more common than it really is.

And % of "rich" and wage inequality aren't exactly one in the same IMO. But that's another thread...
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-09-2013, 12:55 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,331
If you want to feel wealthy on a global scale, check out where you stand in terms of wealth and income -

Global Rich List

For grins just enter your household SS income alone and see where that gets you, which explains the popularity of retiring outside the U.S.

Or compared to just OECD countries -

OECD Better Life Index

Average household disposable income is 23K and net worth $40.5K.

One thing we have realized is middle class has a different meaning in the U.S. and many countries in the E.U. Our relatives there who would consider themselves middle class have in general much smaller houses, cars and appliances.
__________________

__________________
daylatedollarshort is online now  
Old 12-09-2013, 12:57 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
Sometimes I wonder ... why we like to rank ourselves in the herd? Why does it matter so much?
Do we? Does it? Or is it just a discussion topic, fueled by articles like this?

In a similar vein, it seems that 'everyone' has to put a label on music types. I don't care what you call it, I think Duke said "There are only two kinds of music, good music and the other kind" (or was that Country and Western?)

But that doesn't stop people from discussing it.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 12-09-2013, 01:10 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,361
This reminds me of the intro to Bogle's book--

"At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel Catch 22 over its whole history. Heller responds, "Yes, but I have something he will never have . . . Enough.."
- From Introduction, Enough, by John C. Bogle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
And especially, why we like to rank ourselves in terms of dollars income! I consider myself to be rich, in a sense, but my idea of what it takes to be rich has almost nothing to do with income. Having oceans of free time, more than the bare necessities, and feeling completely content with every aspect of life is where it's at IMO. I have that, and let the Donald Trumps of the world eat their hearts out.

__________________
Hamlet is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 01:23 PM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
W2R,

Well said. Being rich is a state of mind that has little to do with annual income. Maybe we need a satisfaction index rather than an income scale to compare ourselves to others.
__________________
2soon2tell is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 01:34 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
And especially, why we like to rank ourselves in terms of dollars income! I consider myself to be rich, in a sense, but my idea of what it takes to be rich has almost nothing to do with income. Having oceans of free time, more than the bare necessities, and feeling completely content with every aspect of life is where it's at IMO. I have that, and let the Donald Trumps of the world eat their hearts out.

I know I have a complicated relationship with my money. As I get older I find the ranking is less important but the "I" in FIRE is the most important to me. Of course, the $'s really do help to give me a good feeling of independence. And let's not forget about the security aspect of having enough money. It can be a cold world out there.

Then there are the "Whee! ..." moments.
__________________
Lsbcal is online now  
Old 12-09-2013, 02:03 PM   #27
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: aberdeen
Posts: 267
250K compared to 60K is a lot of disparity.
250K vs 200K vs 150K, there is not much difference, and who has more wealth depends on how any of them save and invest.
__________________
Birchwood is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 02:22 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,711
I find it interesting that the article refers to these people as "barriers" to income inequality as if these are somehow bad people.

What interests me even more is how the phrase "income inequality" has come into the lexicon over only the past few months. Another boogeyman?
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,160
Income inequality is getting bigger in the US over time, I think. Certainly the amount of money I made in my career was much higher than my predecessor in the same job. CEO's make way more today in the US than they do anywhere else or in the past. Maybe globalization? I don't know. As a beneficiary of the trend who achieved FI sooner and bigger than I ever thought, I say the craziness has to stop now that I have "made it".
__________________
Danmar is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:12 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
What interests me even more is how the phrase "income inequality" has come into the lexicon over only the past few months. Another boogeyman?
It's not a new phrase, see the 1920's, where it played out like this.
Of course it's not that simple and I don't expect it to play out in the same way at all, but I also wouldn't assume we'll maintain the current status quo either...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
imoldernu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Peru
Posts: 4,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
It's not a new phrase, see the 1920's, where it played out like this. Of course it's not that simple and I don't expect it to play out in the same way at all, but I also wouldn't assume we'll maintain the current status quo either...
Thanks for the charts... It brings into focus (for me) some of the reasons why my generation may have a different view of the retirement planning process. One of the obvious disparities was that the tax rates...up to 90+% in the upper brackets, kept the ratio of pay for the CEO's and top level management (to the average pay) in single digits, rather than the "500 times" that we hear about today.
Not to make a judgement here, just an observation. for most of my career, the pay for top management (large corporation) was about 5 or 6 times my own pay... not hundreds of times.
__________________
imoldernu is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:39 PM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2soon2tell View Post
W2R,

Well said. Being rich is a state of mind that has little to do with annual income. Maybe we need a satisfaction index rather than an income scale to compare ourselves to others.
This post is priceless!
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:48 PM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,617
Most people reading this post is rich.
-- Wanna really sock it to those evil 1%ers? You are one if your income was $34,000 last year (Source)
-- The global median annual income per person is $1,225 (Source: UK Daily Mail)
-- The worldwide average annual income per person is approximately $10,000. (Source: BBC)

And that's looking at today, when the world is wealthier than it has ever been. If we look back across even recent history, the "richness" we all have is even more apparent. Royalty did not live as long or enjoy the products and services that a person living below the poverty line has available in the US today. A king could not save his child from the plague, have an ice cream in July, or have a home that was warm in all corners in the winter.

And, viewed from a global or historical level, the US has effectively zero poverty.

It is a positive sign that we keep raising the bar, we should not be content with the status quo. But neither should we lose sight of the world as it is and as it has been in the past. Our progress has been absolutely tremendous.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:48 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
Thanks for the charts... It brings into focus (for me) some of the reasons why my generation may have a different view of the retirement planning process. One of the obvious disparities was that the tax rates...up to 90+% in the upper brackets, kept the ratio of pay for the CEO's and top level management (to the average pay) in single digits, rather than the "500 times" that we hear about today.
Not to make a judgement here, just an observation. for most of my career, the pay for top management (large corporation) was about 5 or 6 times my own pay... not hundreds of times.
You might think so, but again it's not that simple. Top marginal rates assuage the masses, but almost no one pays them, then or now...

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #35
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 75
Stanley Druckenmiller: An Unsustainable Financial Situation | Video | RealClearPolitics

mod edit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theduckguru View Post
The link contains a video explaining the basic economics of funding retiree entitlements and the effect on future workers. Enjoy.
__________________
Theduckguru is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:00 PM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
One of the obvious disparities was that the tax rates...up to 90+% in the upper brackets, kept the ratio of pay for the CEO's and top level management (to the average pay) in single digits, rather than the "500 times" that we hear about today.
.
Not so much, really. The early higher marginal tax rates are not very meaningful because almost no one paid them. There were many ways to shield income from taxes, and you can bet they were heavily used. With the reductions in the top tax rate came reforms that closed these loopholes.

Here's the picture since 1980:


Note that this is FIT, it doesn't include payroll taxes, sales taxes, etc.

Edited to add: Oops, I cross-posted with Midpack
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:03 PM   #37
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 349
Speaking of taxes . . .

The bottom 40% received money (paid negative taxes.) It's a good thing they have a low rate. ;-)

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/tere...-average-18950
__________________
aim-high is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:04 PM   #38
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Please, a short snippet description of or summary from the linked site would be helpful to members.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #39
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Please, a short snippet description of or summary from the linked site would be helpful to members.
I really wanted to submit this without comment and let the members have some discussion about it. Basically, it could be titled the old making out at expense of the young.

So please watch and weigh in.
__________________
Theduckguru is offline  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:23 PM   #40
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theduckguru View Post
I really wanted to submit this without comment and let the members have some discussion about it. Basically, it could be titled the old making out at expense of the young.

So please watch and weigh in.
It is a courtesy to members, that way they need not click on an unknown link and go to another site. It is also part of our posting guidelines, seen here.

Quote:
Please do not post “naked” links, defined as links posted without explanation, interpretation or context.
__________________

__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:45 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.