Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-15-2016, 09:26 AM   #121
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmar View Post
.......... Trying to extrapolate a few cases across millions of people is not valid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2ODude View Post
Stereotyping is never a good idea........
You guys would never make it in politics.
__________________

__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-15-2016, 10:35 AM   #122
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by papadad111 View Post
For me it's guilt..

I have two boys ages 19 and 16 and they are I guess millennials. I shake my head in disbelief at times due to their lack of gumption, candor, motivation and their short sited decisions. They are far far far from being adults. I can see how they are today and how I was at their age and it's night and day different. I truly worry about them launching .before their mid 20s now ( I hope).

There is not the urgency that we had at same age to grow up and be independent. They are ... Scared. Timid and far too Comfortable...

My kids- for a lot of reasons they have not held real jobs (my fault, I told the to focus on school work and grades). So they study a bit (useless humanities topics) and get ok grades but they are not headed in any real direction that will remotely turn into a job down day at a reasonable wage let alone a career.

They've been "pampered" in the realities of life - not so much materialistic stuff but they are comfortable. Full belly every day a free roof over their heads courtesy of mom and dad. Those kids around them are languishing and slow to launch so suddenly that becomes normal ... It was a big deal that my kids got drivers licenses at 16. Almost none of their friends wanted to drive. For us, it was get your drivers license the second we could apply.

Most have no freaking idea what it takes to make a go of things in the real world. I don't blame them ... I'm their dad. I accept the blame.

I hear that it's harder today for kids to launch .... It's because we as parents have made it harder. We've not applied enough tough love, I guess.

By comparison, for my generation : At 19 I had held a part time job for 4 years. I was not alone ... I was a mostly A student too. Most around me were same. Summer's were working and part time classes. We paid for our own car insurance and gas money, and helped with tuition. At 21 I finished college as did my wife to be and both landed full time jobs before graduating ..in a city far from family... Had to make sacrifices. At 24 I got married and 27 became a Dad. Bought a house, Hit sizable NW @ 31, FIRED at 45 and That's my view of average/normal.

Where are we going wrong with the younger generation. It's squarely on our shoulders ... We are the educators. The mentors. The advisors ... Can't really blame them ...

Or maybe we should blame them or at least hold them more accountable.

Definitely this is the hardest age/ stage of parenting - I had no idea how tough it would be.
So do you have any thoughts as to why this happened in your home? Most kids have a roof over their heads and enough to eat, but they don't all follow the path of your kids.I'm curious because your post could have been written by my sister about her almost 19 YO DD..
She's living at home, messing around at the local CC. Can't hit college level math so takes non-credit catch up math. It takes her about 2 or 3 tries to pass each level and shes still 3 levels away from college math classes. Doesn't have a job and says the reason she flunks math is that she doesn't have time to go to the study labs. Told the college counselor that her parents don't support her love of strumming guitar and art, so it's so hard on her to have a pick a study field. I have no illusions she will even grad the CC let alone in 2 years. I tell my sister, make her pay for the make-up Math classes out of her own pocket, quit paying for her 100 dollar hair streaking jobs, makes her life a little uncomfortable, or she'll be living in your house rent free, eating your food forever. My niece rules the roost at that home and nothing good is going to come of it.
__________________

__________________
ivinsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 10:45 AM   #123
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,726
My oh My, my observation seemed to have stepped off the path a bit.

My post was in response to Olbidness about 53 yr. old bar hopping, and yeah I've noticed 25 yr olds doing this too, NOT every one of them.
I was simply commenting how this behavior is not restricted to just 53 yrs olds, but note its NOT every non-53 yr old, and NOT every 53 yr old.
__________________
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 10:58 AM   #124
Full time employment: Posting here.
hankster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
So do you have any thoughts as to why this happened in your home? Most kids have a roof over their heads and enough to eat, but they don't all follow the path of your kids.I'm curious because your post could have been written by my sister about her almost 19 YO DD..
She's living at home, messing around at the local CC. Can't hit college level math so takes non-credit catch up math. It takes her about 2 or 3 tries to pass each level and shes still 3 levels away from college math classes. Doesn't have a job and says the reason she flunks math is that she doesn't have time to go to the study labs. Told the college counselor that her parents don't support her love of strumming guitar and art, so it's so hard on her to have a pick a study field. I have no illusions she will even grad the CC let alone in 2 years. I tell my sister, make her pay for the make-up Math classes out of her own pocket, quit paying for her 100 dollar hair streaking jobs, makes her life a little uncomfortable, or she'll be living in your house rent free, eating your food forever. My niece rules the roost at that home and nothing good is going to come of it.
I have a family member with a step son who is in his mid-30s. He has bounced from one enabler to another throughout his network of family and friends for the past 15 years. He never held more than a low wage temp job here and there. A prime example of how bad things can get when nobody is willing to use tough love.
__________________
"There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no independence quite so important, as living within your means." Calvin Coolidge
hankster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 11:06 AM   #125
Full time employment: Posting here.
UnrealizedPotential's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 573
IMO it is a couple of factors. First some people don't even make 40k a year. Second is a lot of people simply are not interested in going through the pain of finding where the savings would come from. Third is a lot of people simply do not care. Oh, they might later in life but right now they do not want to give up their cell phones or nights out on the town.
__________________
Understanding both the power of compound interest and the difficulty of getting it is the heart and soul of understanding a lot of things. Charlie Munger
UnrealizedPotential is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 11:35 AM   #126
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
You guys would never make it in politics.
Thank you very much! Actually got released from my first government job for failing to play the game and quit my second one because is topped off the ol BS bucket! I really do detest politics but it's like this continuing train wreck I can't look away from. As long as I'm not on the train, it can be entertaining if not sometimes horrifying!
__________________
H2ODude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 11:50 AM   #127
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
You guys would never make it in politics.
Good one. Sadly you're right
__________________
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 01:06 PM   #128
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,984
I'm the pre-millennial (born 1984) who turned out darn cheap. Heck, I was relieved when he got his future wife a decent engagement ring. I'm not sure how I did it; his Dad was a financial disaster who was incapable of LBYM. I taught DS early on that there were trade-offs, though; when we flew to Myrtle Beach to visit my parents when he was 7 or 8 he said it would have been nice to fly Business Class. (He'd experienced it when we flew to Ohio on his Dad's FF miles.) Instead of lecturing him for being ungrateful, I told him that the extra cost of Business Class, which was then another $1K for the 2 of us, was what we'd spent on a wonderful long weekend in Montreal the month before. He got it.

Back to the OT- just another example of the financially clueless: I was reading the AARP newsletter (DH is a member) and one member wrote in to Jane Bryant Quinn's column saying he'd been given the option to take a larger pension over 6 years when he retired, rather than for life. He'd figured that taking it over 6 years was a good bet because his father died at 50. Well, now he's 85 and he needs the extra money and wonders if a lawyer could "help me get my pension back".
__________________
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 01:27 PM   #129
Full time employment: Posting here.
ProspectiveBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankster View Post
I have a family member with a step son who is in his mid-30s. He has bounced from one enabler to another throughout his network of family and friends for the past 15 years. He never held more than a low wage temp job here and there. A prime example of how bad things can get when nobody is willing to use tough love.

I have a friend who did this for years. Then his Dad passed away, and his Mom moved back to Europe. Suddenly, he was able to find stable employment, and quickly got his act together. Amazing what not having a safety net will do.

Some birdies fly from the nest on their own, and some need to be pushed out, but the vast majority will figure out how to fly.

DW and I each have a 40-something sibling still living with a parent. Our kids have been told in no uncertain terms that that option is not available to them.
__________________
I can't complain, but sometimes I still do.
- Joe Walsh
ProspectiveBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 03:08 PM   #130
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I don't hate 'em - I just want them to get the hell off my lawn!
Wait....... I thought you said you wanted them to be available to wipe your butt when you're in the NH strapped to your wheel chair with drool running down your chin? Or was that someone else?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 04:38 PM   #131
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 229
"Thread Evolution Template"

Question or Observation
Judge
Judge
Brag
Judge
Brag
Worry
Brag
Humble Brag
Worry
Judge
Nugget of Wisdom
Brag
Humble Brag
Judge
Judge
Worry
Judge
....


(Tongue in Cheek)
__________________
Shanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 05:50 PM   #132
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Keim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,128
Not enough bragging. I'd do way better.
__________________
You can't enlighten the unconscious.
But you can hit'em upside the head a few times to make sure they are really out...
Keim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 08:36 PM   #133
Recycles dryer sheets
shortstop14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 221
A lot of millennial observations and predictions seems similar to the ones my parents' generation said about mine - the 'turn on, tune in, drop out', 'all we need is love' counterculture generation.

Of course, most of us got on the consumer bandwagon eventually, and are the ones living on easy credit and pre-2008 refinanced loans to get access to home equity.

It's going to be interesting to see how the over-leveraged big home multiple SUV folks will manage once the income dries up. There's where it impacts me, I suppose - when politically they come after the ones who did save.
__________________
shortstop14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 08:44 PM   #134
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MSP
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstop14 View Post
A lot of millennial observations and predictions seems similar to the ones my parents' generation said about mine - the 'turn on, tune in, drop out'...

And thus they were wise to remain Leary of us...
__________________
UpAnchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 08:48 PM   #135
Recycles dryer sheets
nvestysly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 417
I'd like to add to the judge category with a bit of worry thrown in for good measure. As for bragging... I can judge with the best of them!


Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstop14 View Post
... There's where it impacts me, I suppose - when politically they come after the ones who did save.
I've mentioned this type of scenario more than once to DW, family and friends who have saved. Those of us who have saved are made to feel guilty that we "have" while there are hard-working, seemingly well-intentioned others who "have not."

There's a recent thread on this forum regarding an article published in The Atlantic regarding a writer who made poor financial decisions in his life. The writer indicated that so many financial matters are "just life" and he shrugged this off as being out of his control. It's those type of people that are going to find ways to get their hands on your money!
__________________
Dreamin' of Streamin'
FIRE'd at 52 on 7/8/11
nvestysly is offline   Reply With Quote
The Retirement saving shortfall tidal wave
Old 06-16-2016, 06:57 AM   #136
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,135
The Retirement saving shortfall tidal wave

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
So do you have any thoughts as to why this happened in your home? Most kids have a roof over their heads and enough to eat, but they don't all follow the path of your kids.I'm curious because your post could have been written by my sister about her almost 19 YO DD..
She's living at home, messing around at the local CC. Can't hit college level math so takes non-credit catch up math. It takes her about 2 or 3 tries to pass each level and shes still 3 levels away from college math classes. Doesn't have a job and says the reason she flunks math is that she doesn't have time to go to the study labs. Told the college counselor that her parents don't support her love of strumming guitar and art, so it's so hard on her to have a pick a study field. I have no illusions she will even grad the CC let alone in 2 years. I tell my sister, make her pay for the make-up Math classes out of her own pocket, quit paying for her 100 dollar hair streaking jobs, makes her life a little uncomfortable, or she'll be living in your house rent free, eating your food forever. My niece rules the roost at that home and nothing good is going to come of it.

I can only speculate - we lived abroad due to work for a good portion of my kids lives. I was trying to give them life opportunities in the form of world experience, global travel, speaking foreign language, appreciating other cultures Etc. Stuff most American kids get zero exposure to. On the other hand my kids didn't get a chance to have summer jobs and were surrounded by other kids whose sense of reality was fairly warped - kids who never have to work in their lives - old wealth or families who owned conglomerates, were high level diplomats, or C-suite executives. They are street smart yet sheltered and this's skills are hard to apply back here in Mayberry, USA .

Despite our own LBYM, the perks that come with decades of global megacorp assignments where ok and some pitfalls of that lifestyle were hard to avoid too. Add to that the desire to provide more for my kids than I ever had and DW who never did without growing up.

I can be an jack-ass at times setting the bar high (it's set high I am told but I think is low... But that's a judgment that everyone makes for themselves) and that probably doesn't help.

We moved home to the USA a year ago when I FIREd and it's been a big adjustment -- for us parents it was coming home. For the kids it was leaving all they knew as kids behind in a foreign country and over night expecting them to become American again. ( they lived abroad for most of their childhood aside just a couple years). Some of this may just be taking transition time to adjust.


I think personality certainly plays a part. My older son is Introvert and Sensing. He is truly afraid to go out and "make things happen". Needs to be the wing-man not the initiator. The other day I heard it called the snowflake generation. That's him. Got into a good university and flunked his first semester. Did better his second semester but not at all what he is capable of doing. Also he is a 1 marshmallow now vs 2 marshmallows later type. And being empathetic and sensing, he would much rather give his marshmallow to a friend than eat it himself.

Younger son is a bit more aggressive. Likes to hustle. Is more of an extrovert and wants a summer job. He'a traveled solo internationally since age 15 - pretty independent and determined and good financially. He is a 2 marshmallow kid ...but always trying to figure out how to scam the system to get a 3rd marshmallow from someone else without anyone noticing.

A dose of family counseling is in order.
__________________
papadad111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2016, 07:18 AM   #137
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,198
Your older son could be my niece, there is a reason her favorite things are solo endeavors,she had the grades for a 4 year (even Math) but they all very wisely decided that the local CC would be a better fit for her now. She is scraping by at the school, but her life is no different then being in high school, with the exception she regularly tells her Mom, I'll do what I want I'm an adult now.

As for the marshmallow she's so timid someone would have to actually give her one or she's starve. They are doing family counseling, so hopefully things can improve.

Another common theme is "you are too demanding" the standard line they throw at you to make you feel guilty.
__________________
ivinsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2016, 07:39 AM   #138
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ExFlyBoy5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
Or it may be that no one in the USA will ever starve. Everyone will have food and shelter, although it may not be ideal. Healthcare will always available, regardless for your income. You can life a life of leisure, without working at all.

The only benefit that saving for retirement has is to have a few additional choices at the end of life. If you don't make it to a decent retirement, it was all for naught.

It's a similar to collecting Social Security at 62 or 70. Why save for something that may never happen? Have fun now.
This is all very true. As has been pointed out by folks that much more intelligent than me...starvation is not an issue in our country. Obesity? Much more of a problem.

Much of the homeless problems are because these folks have either drug/alcohol addiction issues and/or mental health issues. For the *majority* of folks that don't have these issues, it's not very difficult to get a roof over your head and a 3 squares a day.

So...when it boils down to it, there isn't a genuine reason why anyone HAS to save for retirement. Obviously, if you are relying on nothing but the government and/or gracious organizations to fund your retirement (at a minimal level), then said retirement will probably not be very exciting.

On another note, I have also seen a few people mention that perhaps they saved TOO MUCH. I really haven't given that much thought (I don't think I could have retired much earlier than I had) but this is definitely the case for my Dad. He mentions quite often that the only real regret he made in life was NOT retiring earlier. He certainly had the means to do so, but being raised in an orphanage and having some challenges in life most of us here can't even comprehend, I can see where the apprehension to get off the gravy train would be strong and quite difficult to overcome. For me, I was never really on a gravy train and my BS bucket was often quite full, so I was pretty excited to pull the plug when I did and have ZERO regrets about it.
__________________
Founder and Head Lounger @ The Life of Leisure Institute
Retired in 2014 at the Ripe Age of 40.
ExFlyBoy5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2016, 07:46 AM   #139
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
Your older son could be my niece.

As for the marshmallow she's so timid someone would have to actually give her one or she's starve. They are doing family counseling, so hopefully things can improve.

Another common theme is "you are too demanding" the standard line they throw at you to make you feel guilty.

He started testing that "I'll do what I want" a few months ago and then backed off as I started to growl and show my teeth ... He is a good kid generally. Compliant. Good perspective on starving. Yes. That's a pretty good summary here too.

I get the too demanding line occasionally and then I remind them there's Alpo in the pantry. That shuts them up pretty quickly.
__________________

__________________
papadad111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Under funded pension plan tidal wave ... rayinpenn FIRE and Money 112 05-22-2016 01:54 PM
Is this gonna cause an eclipse, or tidal wave or what? martyb Other topics 16 12-24-2010 09:43 PM
New Wave of Alt-A Foreclosures to be Worse than Subprime Wave Retire Soon FIRE and Money 170 12-15-2008 10:31 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:43 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.