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Old 08-03-2013, 01:34 PM   #21
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I know someone who is worth probably $100+ million and makes in the neighborhood of $5-10 million each and every year. He's in his sixties and has a wife and kids, but comes into the office pretty much every day and often on weekends, too. He just loves being in the office and talking business with people... all day, every day. It's in his DNA, it seems. I once asked him why he didn't just retire and go enjoy spending all his money. He paused and then said "I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I stopped working." Knowing him like I do, I'd say he derives genuine pleasure from being immersed in and running the company he founded, and all the money he has and continues to make is just a by-product of that.
How sad, that he considers time spent with his wife and kids to be less desirable and fulfilling than time at work, especially when he has no need to work anymore.

To each his own...but I pity his spouse and children. Not that I'm saying my father was any better relationship-wise (and I can probably relate to what his family feels).
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:53 PM   #22
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How sad, that he considers time spent with his wife and kids to be less desirable and fulfilling than time at work, especially when he has no need to work anymore.

To each his own...but I pity his spouse and children. Not that I'm saying my father was any better relationship-wise (and I can probably relate to what his family feels).
Projecting much? I didn't get that from the previous comment at all. In the first place, does he even have a wife and kids? If so, are the kids grown up and gone (at 65 I'd assume so)? All he said is that he doesn't have any other activities that give him more pleasure than what he does at work. I'm ER'ed because I never found work like that. But I always wished I had. I knew a few people that did what they loved and they seemed much happier and fulfilled than most others. Heck, being happy in your career could easily lead to a better home life. I'm sure my DW got tired of hearing me bitch every day about my job and coworkers. Just sayin'.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #23
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I don't think it is the income or money for those people. In that kind of income stratosphere, they often have and are likely addicted to power, which is even more difficult to give up for some people.
status also ..
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:48 PM   #24
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IIRC, Rose Davis (mother of Al Davis, Oakland Raider owner) once said:" you can't take it ALL with you" . Maybe these people working past 70 feel adhere to that philosophy.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:10 PM   #25
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I was an executive previously and made quite a lot more than I do in ER when I was working.

I will admit I felt more powerful, respected and important back then - but now I am overall more happy.

It's like some kind of return to innocence - before the greed of the ratrace made me dark and jaded.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:22 PM   #26
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As an engineer, I have always enjoyed building things (hardware design and writing firmware), as well as analysis and simulation of complex and unique electromechanical systems. They did not pay me megabucks, but more than perhaps 95% of engineers, so that made me feel good. I am not rich, and when I was working, never enjoyed being "in charge" of other people (for a sense of power), and just wanted to be an independent contributor.

I have been trying to design and build things at home for myself as a hobby, but it's not quite the same. When I did it for pay, I would have to pay more attention to details, to meet certain requirements or specifications. I have to prove to people my stuff is "good stuff". There was pressure, but that provided an impetus to get the job finished.

I have so many unfinished projects at home, many half-baked. When my health recovers, I should take some time off to finish them.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #27
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I have so many unfinished projects at home, many half-baked. When my health recovers, I should take some time off to finish them.
If you want to. Maybe what you like to do is start projects. If that doesn't hurt anything or cost too much, do what you like. I doubt you're leaving kitchens or bathrooms unusable. Sounds like you had a career of having to take things to completion, you don't have to do that anymore.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:46 PM   #28
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If you want to. Maybe what you like to do is start projects. If that doesn't hurt anything or cost too much, do what you like. I doubt you're leaving kitchens or bathrooms unusable. Sounds like you had a career of having to take things to completion, you don't have to do that anymore.
Thanks RunningBum, there's something rather comforting in your response about someone maybe liking to start projects and not needing to finish them. I think for me there's a bit of a sense of failure if I start a project and don't see it all the way through.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:54 PM   #29
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There's a thing called job satisfaction, and when I do something for pay, I tend to get there. For myself, not all the time.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:03 PM   #30
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I've known many successful businessmen in that income range- and huge NW to match. Often "retirement" is a never something they will admit to. It's not PC. OTOH- Delegating all real w#rk to underlings then devoting their lives to playing golf with their rich buddies 3-5 days/wk, holding regular dinner 'meetings' at which no real business is discussed, traveling across the country to meet with old associates. etc. is not considered "retirement" to this crowd. Some have not made a meaningful (or profitable!) business deal in years yet do not consider themselves "retired".
Apparently, they use a different dictionary
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:43 PM   #31
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If you want to. Maybe what you like to do is start projects. If that doesn't hurt anything or cost too much, do what you like. I doubt you're leaving kitchens or bathrooms unusable. Sounds like you had a career of having to take things to completion, you don't have to do that anymore.
Haha! Excellent. I'm showing this post to DW.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:33 AM   #32
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I've known many successful businessmen in that income range- and huge NW to match. Often "retirement" is a never something they will admit to. It's not PC. OTOH- Delegating all real w#rk to underlings then devoting their lives to playing golf with their rich buddies 3-5 days/wk, holding regular dinner 'meetings' at which no real business is discussed, traveling across the country to meet with old associates. etc. is not considered "retirement" to this crowd. Some have not made a meaningful (or profitable!) business deal in years yet do not consider themselves "retired".
Apparently, they use a different dictionary
Maybe they should call it semi-retired.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #33
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Haha! Excellent. I'm showing this post to DW.
+1.
Except one of my unfinished projects is an upgrade of a bonus room half bath which, fortunately for me, we don't use anyway. But DW has put this one on my ER honey-do list
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:04 PM   #34
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but work to those you mentioned above can be synonym for passion, excitement, and challenge. I can't imagine a person who loves being in charge and a "mover and shaker" of things being more miserable in the retirement I have (which is quite enjoyable to me, though).
I am high enough at my job where they did a personality test on me. Since I am a technical specialist I was something of an outlier. The psychologist I spoke with noted that I had the lowest desire for power over others that he had seen tested at my level in the company. I am guessing most of my peers aren't motivated by FIRE. Probably explains why I am lousy at the mixers at the leadership retreats. ha-ha.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:50 PM   #35
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A good life is when you enjoy the beginning of every time.....while working or retired. I feel sorry for those with jobs they hate doing.....for them retirement is a blessing. My Doc doesn't want to retire....she enjoys seeing and talking to the same patients that she has been seeing for over 20 years.

Basically to each it's own. ....working or retired. If you enjoy each day, have your health and enough money, you've got it made......especially if you have a combination of family and money to share each day with.

I guess I believe rich may start with money but no one is rich unless they have health, financial freedom and people to share it with.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:52 PM   #36
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If one looks at retirement as "being able to choose what you want to do without regard to money", in a sense many of them are retired.
+1. I have clients that meet this description
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:17 PM   #37
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I have known a number of people in that income range, some of my field and others not. Some things that are relevant for many in this range:

1. They love their work. There is no hobby or leisure activity that comes close to the enjoyment they get from their work. Why would they give up doing something that gives them immense pleasure?

2. They are often either the boss or very important to the company where they work. Therefore, as they get older they don't retire but they can schedule work and vacations to suit themselves. They can take off for vacation or come in late or leave early -- if they choose. Some do this a lot and really don't necessarily work full-time. Others mostly work full-time or full-time+ but they know they can arrange their schedule to their wants and needs whenever they want to.

3. Some - not all - never developed strong hobbies or leisure activities and so they truly would feel bored if retired.

4. They see retirement as being put out to pasture. They are used to being someone who does things, who makes a difference, who accomplishes things. They see retirement as ending this.
While I know many people (including some of my partners) to whom some or all of these factors apply, when I told people I was FIREing I had some interesting discussions and came accross some "interesting" reasons for wealthy people who intend to keep working:

5. one who keeps working even though he does not like the job because he is addicted to collecting antique chinese jade - he works to pay for his hobby

6. one who is currently going through his third divorce (children from all three marriages) - sometimes I think this guy is working to pay for his hobbies too

7. a few who keep working because they are scared that they will lose their savings (I believe that most of these people have a lot more than I do)

8. one who tells me he could have retired years ago but both he and his wife want to keep working to set an example for their children
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:48 PM   #38
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I recall many comments on this board along the lines of "I enjoyed the work - I hated the job".

I was a financial analyst and enjoyed figuring out the financial aspects of decisions. I enjoyed my work. But, I had to deal with an oppressive bureaucracy and a CEO who was just over the top in ego. I hated the job.

I expect that lots of people in that $750k plus group have the clout to overcome the stuff they hate (e.g. some don't get frustrated with the CEO because they are the CEOs). Some actually enjoy the challenge of working with frustrating individuals - it's what makes the work fun to them.

Lower income people tend to be lower in the pyramid. They can't avoid or offload the frustrations. *&*&^ runs downhill and all that.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:18 PM   #39
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I have a friend (of twenty years) who is around 70 and retired when he was 37. He needs no money. I retired in 2010. I have no debt and have plenty of money (three decent pensions~it's a long story). Yet I find myself, while happy, a bit bored. Anyway, heís talked me into helping him start up a new business venture. Itís exciting, Iím learning many new things (Iíd always been in the public sector and this is a private sector business) and Iím meeting some really interesting people.

So, put down my vote for continuing to work so long as it entertains you.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:56 AM   #40
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Yet I find myself, while happy, a bit bored. Anyway, heís talked me into helping him start up a new business venture. Itís exciting, Iím learning many new things (Iíd always been in the public sector and this is a private sector business) and Iím meeting some really interesting people.

So, put down my vote for continuing to work so long as it entertains you.
That's not a job Rich. That sounds like adventure! Grab the ball and run! That's great!
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