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Old 11-20-2008, 01:25 PM   #41
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Well if it cost GM $20K to fly Wagoner to DC and he comes back with a "deal" worth $25B, then it will look like money well spent!
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:26 PM   #42
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from the Delta website a 1st class fully refundable business/first class ticket is $1358 round trip to go from detroit to DC with one stop Nov 24 and come back the 26th. no saturday night stay to make this realistic.

if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare. don't know how much fuel and maintenance is or how many people it flies but i doubt it's a huge money pit compared to flying a commercial airline. and it's more flexible because you can fly into any airport you want without having people spend a full day traveling if their destination isn't in a major city.

few years ago i flew NYC to boston a few times for work. i'd take a 7am flight out and be back in time for dinner. in manement's case they can have the company jet wait for them if they are running late and save the money on hotel costs.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:37 PM   #43
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They could have carpooled for under $100 in gas....
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:43 PM   #44
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They could have carpooled for under $100 in gas....
...and even divvied up the cost to rent a Honda Prius to drive there.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:46 PM   #45
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...and even divvied up the cost to rent a Honda Prius to drive there.
That would have been a great photo op, the Big Three CEOs and the UAW goof crammed into a Prius, rolling up to Capitol Hill.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:57 PM   #46
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from the Delta website a 1st class fully refundable business/first class ticket . . .

if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare.
I think I found the problem. This is the type of math/rationalization that got these companies to the point they are today.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:59 PM   #47
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from the Delta website a 1st class fully refundable business/first class ticket is $1358 round trip to go from detroit to DC with one stop Nov 24 and come back the 26th. no saturday night stay to make this realistic.

if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare. don't know how much fuel and maintenance is or how many people it flies but i doubt it's a huge money pit compared to flying a commercial airline.
First, these companies likely can arrange contract air prices from the airlines, such as the US Government does. This affords refundability, flexibility in schedules, and the benefit of volume pricing.

Second, what makes these CEOs worth business/first class? Again in comparison with the government, a commander of a ship for example, does not rate first/business class unless the distances are extreme or such. As a matter of fact, most government employees are not authorized any but coach unless it's upgraded with frequent flyer miles or at the employees expense. Again, what makes these guys think they need this sort of treatment?

It's incomprehensible the audacity of these types of managers. Even if it were all a charade, don't they understand the statement they're making by this sort of elitist (yes, this is truly elitist) behavior? Can't be seen with the rabble? While the rest of us wait in absurd security lines, take our shoes off and can't carry more than 3 oz of toothpaste!?

Perhaps if more of these buggers were brought down to earth, the world wouldn't be such a pain in the okole for the rest of us. Imagine waiting in line with a Senator, Congressman, or CEO of one of the big 3 in the TSA gate at Dulles and seeing one of them get pulled aside for the screening especiale. Then I'll believe they understand the challenges real people face, in large part due to their actions.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:00 PM   #48
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That would have been a great photo op, the Big Three CEOs and the UAW goof crammed into a Prius, rolling up to Capitol Hill.
I know, maybe then they would have gotten the bailout!
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:03 PM   #49
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if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare. don't know how much fuel and maintenance is or how many people it flies but i doubt it's a huge money pit compared to flying a commercial airline. and it's more flexible because you can fly into any airport you want without having people spend a full day traveling if their destination isn't in a major city.
Believe me, the planes may have seats for 16 to 20 people, but they NEVER fly with that many people. I remember when Bill Ford took the company over and found out that Ford owned a FLEET of jets that were sometimes being used by separate execs to fly the same routes almost empty. He sold the fleet and leased a smaller fleet of jets.

In all seriousness, it would have shown some sincerity if they all would have flown in together at least.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:03 PM   #50
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I just don't see how a "measly" amount like $8 billion is going to help GM, when they are burning almost $6 billion a month??
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:41 PM   #51
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it's like Rick Wagoner said, they don't know if this one loan is enough
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:50 PM   #52
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it's like Rick Wagoner said, they don't know if this one loan is enough
Man, those Big Three guys are total amateurs. If they really need $50 billion, they should have asked for $100 billion, and then "backed off" the number......
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:39 PM   #53
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We are told they must ride the private jet because their security procedures require it. Big deal, if you are the CEO you can change the procedure. These guys really don't get it.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:59 PM   #54
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We are told they must ride the private jet because their security procedures require it. Big deal, if you are the CEO you can change the procedure. These guys really don't get it.
They probably don't want to ride with the public and hear 250 stories about this or that malfunction with various autos. Or risk direct action from a GM shareholder way back in coach miffed about losing 50% on the "blue chip" GM stock left to her by her widowed mom.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:07 PM   #55
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People with some inside information say that the real reason United Airlines moved top executives from the near-the-airport offices (still in use) to a highrise in downtown Chicago was that said execs needed to be isolated from the mass of worker bees whose pay and pensions had been devastated while the execs got a compensation plan the NYT described as "insanity squared".
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:11 PM   #56
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We are told they must ride the private jet because their security procedures require it. Big deal, if you are the CEO you can change the procedure. These guys really don't get it.
They all left from Detroit, MI, don't you think they could have "car pooled" in one plane. After all they spent two days sitting inches from each other and I include the UAW President in that?
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:18 PM   #57
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All three CEOs and the UAW President on one plane might be a bigger security risk--just paint a target on that plane for disgruntled workers/stockholders to aim at.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:20 PM   #58
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All three CEOs and the UAW President on one plane might be a bigger security risk--just paint a target on that plane for disgruntled workers/stockholders to aim at.
Well, problem solved.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:21 PM   #59
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Yes, I have to agree with that. Most comapnies have policy that prohibits several top execs or other vital people from sharing the same transportation. All the leaders of the Big Three on one airplane would be a poor idea, regardless of whose airplane.
But you don't need to all ride on the same airliner.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:24 PM   #60
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All three CEOs and the UAW President on one plane might be a bigger security risk--just paint a target on that plane for disgruntled workers/stockholders to aim at.
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