Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Think my f-i-l got taken by an annuity/insur company
Old 11-04-2011, 04:50 PM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 424
Think my f-i-l got taken by an annuity/insur company

I have been managing my father-in-law's IRA for the last 5 years or so in a fidelity account. I've been doing pretty good with it as it's up over 4% YTD with a 30/70 split.

Several companies seem to be contacting him every month about annuities, hence my annuities questions a while back. I've been talking him out of all kinds of stuff. I did suggest a SPIA when rates rebound.

Today I got email alerts that 6 trades were executed. So when I call to see to what happened, I am told that the account has been liquidated and is on it's way to jackson.com.

Anyone ever heard of them? I can't wait to see what they talked him into. I would be shocked if they actually offered him something in his best interest.
__________________

__________________
JohnDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-04-2011, 05:05 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,254
I would be calling him up ASAP and asking HIM what is up... and see if it can be reversed....

But might already be to late...
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 05:12 PM   #3
Full time employment: Posting here.
toofrugalformycat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 731
At least in Oregon (likely other states too) you should have a short grace period in which one can back out of such an agreement, even if signed. Time may be of the essence if you want to help your f-i-l undo something. My sibling (who at the time sold annuities!) successfully got an elderly relative out of a bad annuity agreement in such a situation.
So if you are concerned, don't sit on your hands.
I know nothing of jackson.com, but that doesn't mean anything. I do know of many annuity salespeople preying on the elderly and the uninformed.
Best of luck.
__________________
toofrugalformycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 05:17 PM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 424
I think as this point there is not much I can do.

I am having the wife call him back (I don't have his cell number) and see if he wants me to look over whatever they sold him.

I might need the groups help to find the holes in it. I really only researched SPIA's a while back.

EDIT: He is bringing the paper work over next week. I guess he is not interested in bailing on it. Apparently, his girlfriend hooked him up with Jackson National Life insurance company.
__________________
JohnDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 05:30 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe View Post
I've been doing pretty good with it as it's up over 4% YTD with a 30/70 split.
Have you been communicating about this regularly with your FIL?

Somehow I get the feeling that his perception of your management may not have been as favorable as your perception of it. Couple that with a good sales pitch and it would be easy to see why he might make a sudden decision to change things (however rash that decision might actually be).
__________________
Pas de lieu Rhône que nous.
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 05:39 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,572
In Texas you can back out of the contract within seven days. Find out what the law is in your FIL's state and act quickly.
__________________
Rustward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 05:43 PM   #7
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
Have you been communicating about this regularly with your FIL?

Somehow I get the feeling that his perception of your management may not have been as favorable as your perception of it. Couple that with a good sales pitch and it would be easy to see why he might make a sudden decision to change things (however rash that decision might actually be).
Probably not as much as I should. I see him every week in a social setting so we don't talk about it too much. He did complain last week about the market fluctuations and keeps asking me about an annuity. When he said market fluctuations, I assumed he meant the DOW because his account isn't very volatile.

However, I assumed we would have a serious discussion before he went and did something crazy like this.
__________________
JohnDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 05:57 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Jackson National is an annuity specialist. Bet you anything you like that the sales pitch was long on sizzle, short on steak and that the product he is going into is pretty much incomprehensible to 99% of the population.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 06:20 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Most if not all annuities have a 30 day free look period. It will be fairly easy to cancel once he gets the policy.......

However, he is your FIL, you might not have the same umph as if your wife questioned him about it.........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 08:04 PM   #10
Full time employment: Posting here.
arebelspy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 625
I echo the 30 day grace period. I've read contracts for several and have frequently seen that. Look into it. But if he's sold on it, it may be tough convincing him to change his mind, then he'd lose face in front of you and whoever sold it to him...
__________________
arebelspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 12:53 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe View Post
I think as this point there is not much I can do.

I am having the wife call him back (I don't have his cell number) and see if he wants me to look over whatever they sold him.

I might need the groups help to find the holes in it. I really only researched SPIA's a while back.

EDIT: He is bringing the paper work over next week. I guess he is not interested in bailing on it. Apparently, his girlfriend hooked him up with Jackson National Life insurance company.
I would back away fast. He fired you, without even telling you that you were being fired.

AMF, FIL!
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 02:12 AM   #12
Recycles dryer sheets
justplainbll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Easten Long Island
Posts: 414
Good luck. I had to beat the annuity vultures off with a stick when renewing my mother's CDs.
__________________
justplainbll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:08 AM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Fear and Greed makes people susceptible to the pitch. Running to an annuity out of fear... (IMO is a bad way to go about it).

IMO a SPIA can be effective (if applied properly). But putting together the overall financial plan and structure takes some analysis... just for the planning part. Assuming an acceptable company and product has been identified. There is a big question to be answered... how much is actually needed and how does it fit into the context of the overall plan? What is he hoping to accomplish? These products are tools that are (should be) used for very specific purposes!!!

The best advice is for him to educate himself and understand that there is a process that should be followed in identifying how much is needed (and why it is needed). Then do the company/product analysis. Assuming an acceptable deal is found.. figure out the options... then proceed. Don't let fear drive one to a poor knee-jerk decision.

Fees matter, rates matter, the deal matters (the contract, constraints, riders if used, etc). Consider advising him to analyze it further (do his homework) before he makes a permanent decision. You might ask him to see what else is available (other comparable products from other companies) and get comparative quotes from several highly rated companies. That will enable him to take some time to study it closer and compare products. Who knows... he might learn a little and make a more informed decision.

Be sure to check the companies ratings. He should check for complaints at this state insurance commission and do some homework about the company.

As others have stated, if he has already signed.. that free look period is the way out (but it has to be exercised pretty quickly).
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 07:38 AM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
I would back away fast. He fired you, without even telling you that you were being fired.

AMF, FIL!
+1 The last thing you should do is force your opinions on someone who knows better. Recipe for disaster. Bet the annuity has some sort of joint life provision with the girl friend.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:41 AM   #15
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
I would back away fast. He fired you, without even telling you that you were being fired.

AMF, FIL!
I kind of agree with this.

I don't think it's my place anymore to get involved. I helped get him out of high load, high expense MF's from Wachovia to Fidelity years ago and now he left Fidelity.
__________________
JohnDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:57 AM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe View Post
I kind of agree with this.

I don't think it's my place anymore to get involved. I helped get him out of high load, high expense MF's from a Wachovia to Fidelity years ago and now left Fidelity.
Very wise.
__________________
JustCurious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 04:12 PM   #17
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 589
You can check what's up, but that will be about it, since it is his money. Personally, I'd feel much less open to bailing him out later in life when he realizes how much he has screwed up. If he wants to make his own bed, let him sleep in it later.
__________________
plex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 04:27 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,585
I''m sure you'll do the right thing, but here's one more thought.

You probably like the guy, or you wouldn't have managed his money for him.
So you might consider, after he shows you what he did, writing up your analysis of his move. Show the costs he incurred, the path he has locked himself into, and the down sides of the deal compared to what you were doing.

Of course, that would take a thorough analysis of the annuity, which might be more work than you want to do, especially now, but it's an idea.
__________________
Pas de lieu Rhône que nous.
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 04:59 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,407
JNL is actually a pretty decent company as annuity writers go, but I'm sure whatever the agent put him into was in the agent's best interest.

You may want to show him his IRA results for the past 1, 3 and 5 years and explain that while markets go up and down that a disciplined approach in a diversified portfolio will perform quite well and that he need not worry about the market going up and down.

If he is still in the free look period where he could cancel the annuity but still wants the annuity - well - you can't push a rope.
__________________
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:13 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
FIRE'd@51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
However, he is your FIL, you might not have the same umph as if your wife questioned him about it.........
You haven't mentioned what your wife thinks about all of this.
__________________

__________________
I'd rather be governed by the first one hundred names in the telephone book than the Harvard faculty - William F. Buckley
FIRE'd@51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting a Company? ATC Guy Young Dreamers 16 03-11-2012 09:21 PM
Ameriprise workers sue over company's own 401(k) funds travelover FIRE and Money 26 10-04-2011 10:52 AM
"Retirement" defined by my company Finance Dave FIRE and Money 32 09-13-2011 03:29 PM
raise income tax bracket rates to create economic/job growth jdw_fire FIRE Related Public Policy 146 08-13-2011 07:48 PM
Which of the two? HatePayingTaxes Other topics 45 07-12-2011 03:31 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:00 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.