Those who plan to ER in their 30's/40's...are you unfulfilled by your career?

[haloFIRE]

Good question Arizona

We all have our reasons for wanting to FIRE. Over time our reasons change.

Where I am now, 47, FI, but holding out for 2 more years so we can travel more in retirement, work is purely a means to an end.

Some days are great, some, not so much. Even the days I really enjoy it, I can easily think of a 1000 things I'd rather be doing. On the bad days, well, it is hard not to submit my retirement paperwork.

The fact that you are on this board tells me you are far ahead of your peers, and when you reach the point where many of us are now, you'll be able to chose. Work on, or retire early.

I wish you fun and excitement as you work towards FI, and if it is what you want, FIRE!

 

[enjoyinglife102]

Like others, when I was young there was a lot I wanted to accomplish and the acheivements, titles and money that came along were great. Do anything though for 20+ years and chances are it's appeal will diminish and there are other ways you may want to spend your time. So FI is about choices and that freedom is priceless. Doesn't mean some won't chooose to stay in megacorp but I sure wasn't one of them and love all the activities, events, time with family/friends or just enjoy being that are now my life.

 

[Maenad]

In the company I work for, quite a few people in their mid to upper 40's have some of the best positions. Often times these positions pay upwards of $150K/ year, there is a decent amount of travel involved, and you truly are the manager of a small facet of a large company.

You do realize that org structures are pyramidal, right? Most people in their mid to upper 40s are not managers, since there just aren't enough managerial positions open for all of those people. The positions you describe are far from universal.

Being 22 years old, I aspire to be in one of these positions as I gain experience and many of those who hold these jobs seem to enjoy what they do and the various interactions on a daily basis unlike the boring and monotonous work I perform being entry-level.

Well, yes, that's the price all of us pay right out of school. And the high-powered positions demand seriously long hours and time away from friends and family, so there are trade-offs.

Are you sick of work period?

To a certain degree, yes. Much of my evenings and weekends are consumed by decompressing from work and doing chores around the house. I haven't gone fishing in years, and my new creative hobby is progressing very slowly simply because I don't have the time to dedicate to it. And my raspberry patch is not being cared for properly, either.

Does your company allow for no room to grow into better/more interesting opportunities?

This does max out, eventually. You see a lot of upside, since you're at the beginning of your career, but I'm already seeing positions where my strategic skills and ability to effect systemic change are simply not wanted. Most companies don't do the big systemic improvements until the FDA is threatening them (in my industry). I'm 38, BTW, so it happened sooner than I was expecting.

Do you simply want to spend more time with family?

Oh hell yeah. I married my husband because I actually want to be with him, not spend 3/4 of our waking hours apart.

If you enjoy what you do...is it really even "work"?

For me, any time I have to get up when I'd really rather get another hour of sleep, makes it "work". I work in the medical device industry, which is highly fulfilling, but there's always drudgery. There's always coworkers you clash with, and DBRs (dumb business rules) you can't change. Those annoyances will wear off the shiny new coating of a career eventually, even if you like it.

I agree with others - go for FI, so you can do what you want with your life. If you want, work until you drop dead and give a bunch to charity. RE and start a chicken farm. The freedom to do what you want is always worthwhile.

 

[tryan]

I got out at 45 ... managed 3 groups as a department head (and rental property on the side).

What did it for me was the politics. Too much under-tow and back-stabbing by both contractors AND CUSTOMERS. THAT'S management ... THAT's what had to be "managed" ... and I had had enough at 45.

The OP said it best ....

unlike the boring and monotonous work I perform being entry-level.

... it only gets WORSE.

 

[chris2008]

My 2 cents:
Those positions you look at look and feel different once you have them enjoyed for some years.
At age 22 I was not aware of that.
I do not regret one minute that I pushed myself to get into such positions.
However, I am happy that I realized early enough to save for FI that the fun might go away over time.

 

[googily]

I'm 47. Had a management job by the time I was 26, hated hated hated it. Would never aspire to that again.

Then I got a good job at a good company, was making $100k in non-management pretty quickly.

But the job has changed radically, the downsizings have decimated my department, and it's no fun anymore.

I have a hobby that makes little money but has ended up being a very rewarding experience, and is what I define myself by, far more than my job.

My husband (52) and I have no kids, have done a good job of LBOM, and are ready to do something other than work full time.

But, above all that, I've recently watched a parent who always seemed like they'd live forever go through a horrible disease and die at 73, and that made the decision even easier. You've only got one life, and you never know what's going to happen.

 

[Lagniappe]

ArizonaDreaming,

I left an interesting and fulfilling job that I had spent decades working toward at 47, last year. At some point in my thirties, I realized that fulfillment can be achieved outside of work. In my mid forties, a series of illnesses and deaths of friends and family members prodded me to realize that time is limited. I feel very lucky to have a choice about where and how I spend my time, and I choose to spend it seeing the world, making myself healthier and enjoying the company of family and friends, which could not be done while working given the stressful and time consuming nature of most high powered jobs. Even when the job is great, there are other challenges out there. Giving yourself the gift of financial independence enables you to decide what's next, rather than being forced to work because you need the income. If you happen to still love your job once you are FI, party on. But if you don't, or if you just want to try something else, it sure is nice to have the ability.

Lagniappe

 

[brett]

I am one of the lucky ones. I retired at 59. I always enjoyed my job, up until the last 2 or 3 years when the industry and my employer changed.

I was well compensated and I had some very lucrative stock options which I exercised prior to the crash and kept in cash. My job was great, the team that I worked with was first class, and head office was far away.

I changed my focus several times during my working career. It allowed me to change, and enjoy change/challenge/personal growth.

I think the best advice I would provide is be flexible, be prepared for change, keep your ear to the ground, and gain an appreciation of what constitutes a good opportunity within your environment. And don't waste your time and talent working in a position that you do not like or enjoy if you envisage this as your future.

 

[gozer]

@ OP, I want to simplify my life, reduce stress and enjoy the rest of my life. If my job wasn't going to kill me I would continue and more slowly wind down. But even then eventually the job will usually get in the way of other things you want to do.

I used to love my job when I was in my 20's. I actually couldn't believe they paid me to do it. As I moved up through the ranks and became more exposed to politics and such, I made a lot more money, but liked the job less and less.

Today I am 48 and have a higher end position that has a base salary of 152K per yer. I have turned down a promotion to the next position 3 times in the last four years. The next position comes with a 30K raise and makes you eligible for annual bonuses. In good years those bonuses are almost equal to your entire salary. However I think the good years will be few and far between going forward. Frankly I don't need the money, and I certainly don't need the stress. In that next position I assume I would stroke out within a decade and leave my wife a wealthy widow. I don't think I could even survive to normal retirement age in 19 years staying in my current position. I am currently fairly healthy and would like to keep it that way for as long as I can.

My wife's position with the same company is similar money wise, but she is one step behind me, 80-100K now but could move into the 130-160K range at the next position in the next year or two. Next Friday is her ER date.

I used to travel extensively for the company. I'm a programmer/analyst, but often the customer wanted our techs to talk with their techs, while the sales and management guys sit at the other end of the conference room and talk about money, baseball and how cool their new Porsche is. So these trips are taking me away from what I would consider my primary job. At first the expense account living seemed like fun and adventure and almost a mini vacation each time. It quickly became a tedious pain in the ass. As the company out-sourced there were fewer and fewer actual employees to handle these meetings. So each of us began doing more of them. Each trip became a mad scramble to get there and back. No time to site see, just a series of airports and bad food. We need you back in the office doing your real job. But the management and sales guys always seem to get to stay through the next weekend on the company dime. I arrived at work one day and my boss handed me plane tickets for 4 flights that day in another coworkers name. My coworker had gotten sick so even though I had just returned from a two day trip, I was up again. Can you imagine flying today with plane tickets that are not actually yours?

Because of the travel above and the fairly senior level I have risen to, I did get to spend a fair amount of time with many of the VPs at the company listening to them while drinking at some airport or hotel bar. I learned that most deal with stress by drinking and buying things. So I actually have a larger retirement nest egg than most of them and a more conservative lifestyle to support than all of them. I only remember running into a couple that have more than 5 years of annual expenses saved up for retirement. I have 40 years saved.

My ER date is the first week of 2014. If I make it that long.

 

[jime444]

It's always interesting to me to read the comments of 20/30 year olds, their careers, their motivation and in my opinion, their "lack of real world experience".
I, too, was once a fired up, pi$$-cutter of an employee, willing to leap tall building with a single bound, work hours without end and sacrifice all including my family life for the "good of the organization". My ego got in the way of living a balanced, full life. I take full responsibility for that. However, no longer will I do so.
You will soon learn the truth. Hopefully, you will do so sooner than later.
You may be in a fantastic work situation. I was several times. They do not last. Being promoted to Management is worse. No matter what they tell you, your role is to extract the most of your direct reports/teams with the least amount of resources input (that includes $). Period. It's a zero sum game and it's been the same throughout my entire working career. Today it's even worse in the workplace with all of the mind-numbing metrics, grading, political correctness, & non-value added EH&S nonsense. Work is an income generating device, whether you work for someone else or own you own business. Don't try and receive "fulfillment, inspiration or enlightenment" from your work. Make it a income generating device and keep it at that. Once your personal wealth exceeds your working income, let's just see how long you will continue to do so.

Sorry to be such a downer; however, you need to understand that the decades will change you. This includes what's "important to you", your family, your remaining time on this earth and other things you can do with your time. All I hope is that you find "enlightenment" earlier in your life than I did. Good luck to you.

 

[ER Eddie]

Don't try and receive "fulfillment, inspiration or enlightenment" from your work. Make it a income generating device and keep it at that.

Although I understand where jime is coming from, I disagree with this bit of advice. There is nothing wrong and much right with trying to find work that is personally satisfying, interesting, and stimulating -- even inspiring or meaningful. Many people spend decades in work they are excited and stimulated by. May you be one of them.

Just be aware, like a lot of people are saying, that things may look a lot different after a couple of decades in the field.

 

[RE2Boys]

...If all goes according to plan, my kids will be about 6 and 8 when I ER. I want to be able to devote a lot more of my time and attention to them, and be involved in their lives. I have only one chance to do this - if I wait a decade that chance will be gone.

This was the clincher when I was given an opportunity to retire early due to company downsizing. I had just turned 50 and the boys were 2 years and the younger only 15 months. Once I realized that I could be part of their daily lives, it was a no brainer. Call me a soccer Dad.

Now 63, boys are 14 and 16, and it was absolutely the right decision. Do some seasonal work (taxes). The boys sometimes gripe that I'm not home as much and I remind them that that is the norm for most families.

 

[clifp]

My favorite statistic (never been able to verify it.)
Percentage of multi-million lottery winners who say they intend to continue working 75%
Percentage of multi-million lottery winners still working one year latter 25%.

Simply put when you no longer have to work to maintain your lifestyle it changes your attitude about work. Money may not buy happiness but the lack of money can make you pretty miserable. I have been fortunate that other than college, I've never poor. But plenty of board members have.

There are things that satisfy and things that dissatisfy about a job. There is a forum anecdote about jobs being a one big bullshit bucket. I am going expand on the concept.

Imagine when you start your job you get a outhouse toilet right next to your desk. For most people when you first start out in a job, the pit is so deep you can't even hear if you drop something down the pit. When you open the toilet lovely fragrances waft out and your favorite songs play. Now every time you get
an assignment to do something some opens the toilet and deposits some sh*t Every once in a while you catch a bit of the smell but it isn't too bad.

The good news is you are constantly learning things at the job, meeting new people.
Every time that happens the janitors come and clean the toilet. Sometimes you even get pat on the back from the boss, a fun new project, or even a promotion. Then the janitor crew comes and enhances your toilet, adds comfy heated seat, air purifiers, maybe a bidet, gold fixtures, eventually a TV even.

But the biggest single thing that happens is every two week or so is you get a paycheck. When you really want a new car, owe on your student loan, or want to treat your SO to night on the town. The paychecks are literally the equivalent of having the outhouse sh*t completely removed.

As time passes in a job, the fragrance fades, the music gets repetitive. There is less stuff to learn and some of the interesting people you met turn out to be A*holes.
More or more BS gets dumped in your toilet and you realize sh*t really does stink. Now eventually many people will find a new job and start with new clean smelling outhouse.

But a funny thing happens when you achieve financial independence. The paychecks become less important, so it seem that instead of complete emptying your outhouse the janitors open the toilet and only remove a small cup. At some point, the outhouse overflows, and doesn't really matter how pretty the fixtures are or how nice the TV. You realize you are tired of the BS. Moving to a different jobs doesn't have a huge appeal because all jobs come with outhouse toilets.

During the late 90s, at the height of the internet bubble, my stock option gains were 5x my salary, and my (paper) portfolio gains were closer to 10x. It didn't really matter that I was 39 why work if I didn't love my job and I no longer did.

 

[ShortInSeattle]

I really enjoy my job, and I suspect I'll like ER even more.

More time with my DH.
More freedom to travel.
Permanent Summer Vacation!
More time for sleep, exercise, family, movies, books, and sex.
The freedom to offer my skills as a consultant or volunteer, but not feeling obligated to.

What is not to love about this plan?

SIS

 

[jime444]

Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree with EREddie. Personally, I've never met one person that would do the work I do(or similar) for little or no compensation. All my peers do is talk about is ER. People that LOVE their work may exist, however, I've never met them. Ask them, " how long would you work here for no compensation?". Nope, zero positive responses, ever. I really believe it's a made-up fantasy of business's management for "motivational" purposes. About every couple of months I see some "study" for managers to "motivate" their employees. They talk about engagement, inspiration, team work, etc. They never talk about improving compensation or benefits or pensions or 401k matching. Why? Because that costs money and that's a big no-no.

If you can find work that you don't truly loathe, and it's compensation is reasonable, then consider yourself ahead of the game. A lot of my so-called career has been pretty decent, interesting work and I do consider myself fortunate. However, as I near ER, either the work is getting worse or my tolerance for it is getting less. Probably a combination of the two. Good luck in your future endeavors, make sure you LBYM and properly save and invest for those works days, twenty or thirty years from now, that will seem to never end. I can almost guarantee that there will be some of those.

 

[Spanky]

I really enjoy my job, and I suspect I'll like ER even more.

More time with my DH.
More freedom to travel.
Permanent Summer Vacation!
More time for sleep, exercise, family, movies, books, and sex.
The freedom to offer my skills as a consultant or volunteer, but not feeling obligated to.

What is not to love about this plan?

SIS

Great plan! When?

 

[ER Eddie]

Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree with EREddie. Personally, I've never met one person that would do the work I do(or similar) for little or no compensation. All my peers do is talk about is ER. People that LOVE their work may exist, however, I've never met them. Ask them, " how long would you work here for no compensation?". Nope, zero positive responses, ever.

I didn't mean that (some) people enjoy their work so much that they would do it for free. I think you're framing the issue in black/white terms, as if you either work only for the money or you love your work so much you would do it for free. There are plenty of options in between.

All I meant was that it is quite possible, and a good idea, to try to find work that is interesting, stimulating, and rewarding for you personally, if you can. A paycheck is great, but some people find jobs that supply a paycheck and also provide other rewards (challenge, intellectual stimulation, creativity, etc.). That doesn't mean those people would do that work for free. It just means that they get more from their work than just money.

We spend a huge part of our lives at work. Why not try to make it as rewarding as possible? That's all I'm saying.

 

[Spanky]

We spend a huge part of our lives at work. Why not try to make it as rewarding as possible? That's all I'm saying.

Agreed if it's possible, albeit finding work that's fun and well-paid is rare. If it's fun, it's not work anymore.

 

[ShortInSeattle]

Great plan! When?

For me, about 10-15 years from now.

 

[Spanky]

For me, about 10-15 years from now.

Thanks for the response. Best of luck!

 

[Onward]

You may be in a fantastic work situation. I was several times. They do not last. Being promoted to Management is worse. No matter what they tell you, your role is to extract the most of your direct reports/teams with the least amount of resources input (that includes $). Period. It's a zero sum game and it's been the same throughout my entire working career. Today it's even worse in the workplace with all of the mind-numbing metrics, grading, political correctness, & non-value added EH&S nonsense. Work is an income generating device, whether you work for someone else or own you own business. Don't try and receive "fulfillment, inspiration or enlightenment" from your work. Make it a income generating device and keep it at that. Once your personal wealth exceeds your working income, let's just see how long you will continue to do so.

This is the best piece of advice I've read on these forums in ... maybe ever.

 

[mortal]

Some folks are indeed motivated to retire in their 40's. They save to become financially independent, with this goal in mind.

I *may* retire early, but this is not my motivation.

If perception colors reality, perhaps my view of the world is darker than it truly is. However, I can't shake this gnawing feeling in my gut that my generation is much less secure, and our outcome much less certain than my parents or grandparents before me.

I save as much as I do to be financially secure, and independent as a goal in and of itself. Once I'm FI, I will be free to take greater risk, and take more interesting work without worry of what will happen if I fail.

I do realize at some point after I'm FI, that interesting work may not be as rewarding as pursuing my hobbies, and spending time with family. I will make that decision when I come to it.

It's important that you have something to retire to, not simply a job you're escaping from.

 

[ArizonaDreaming]

I really enjoyed reading all the replies...it definitely gives someone like me, a young "go-getter", some perspective as to why anyone would retire at an age when you should be nearing the peak of your earning potential.

My idea of an early retirement was retiring in your lower to mid 50's before I ever heard of this forum. The idea of calling it quits at 45 seemed to be preposterous unless you inherited a boatload of cash or made gobs of money in the stock/real estate boom.

My personal goal is to retire at age 52-53 with a solid 30 years in the working world. Hopefully by this time I have enough retirement savings as well as income-producing investments to allow for a comfortable lifestyle in my golden years. I plan "ideally" to escape the cornfields of Iowa to my retirement in sunny San Diego in a comfortable condo with views of the pacific. I've always felt that waking up every day in a city with perfect weather, beaches, sunshine, and an easy-going vibe would make me a happier person than dealing with snow, sleet, tornadoes, hail, excessive humidity, etc.

Maybe my personal goals are a bit lofty but I figure I have 30 years to hopefully plan for such a lifestyle.

 

[Yachi]

I'd love to retire as early as possible, so you could put me in this category. I'll take my stab at responding.

First the why:

In college I was constantly told despite studying all the time, that this was going to be the best time of my life. I didn't realize how true it would seem until I started my first job. Despite choosing a career generally considered to be good and intellectually stimulating, I was bored. I moved to a new company for more money, and I was much busier working overtime, but still bored.

The commute sucks because it's wasted time, but I'm doing it because the job doesn't pay enough to live in the area it's located in, at least not maintaining an adequate standard of living.

I'm told when to wake up every workday for the rest of my life. I'm told how to dress -gotta have buttons- and how to look -no long hair, etc. I'll put in extra time one day and feel too guilty to leave early the next. I don't feel at ease joking or being myself in a work atmosphere.


If you enjoy what you do is it really even "work"?

I guess some of us expected to enjoy work and it never panned out. It's still work if you enjoy it. Look if your boss does something stupid and you can't critique it, it's because your at work. You can enjoy everything you do technically and all your interactions with clients and customers, then a new boss comes in and you have to prove yourself all over again while watching the blunders a new boss makes without getting to help because your pay grade's not high enough for anyone to listen to what you have to say.

Pay and opportunities for people 45-50

We have some highly paid employees in this age range, who seem to get involved in lots of interesting work, but they'll be 60 to 65 and still in the company when I get to their level. I'm not convinced that positions with interesting work will remain when I get to that level. I've also seen people at this age who would love to call it quits but they don't have the means.

I believe in supply and demand when it comes to salaries. You're either getting high pay because you could go somewhere else (including early retirement), you have skills that few other workers have, or you happen to work in an industry with lots of $$ to go around. I have the opportunity to chase work with travel involved, but I wouldn't consider that a plus. To me it's not a vacation since you're there for work and your family is missing.

 

[Ready]

I see a lot of references to "megacorp" in this forum, which leads me to believe that there are many folks here who worked for very large corporations prior to retiring. While there can be office politics, bureaucracy, and high stress in any company, I do believe that the megacorp environment can create a very impersonal experience for a lot of people, and that only makes it that much less satisfying for them.

I worked for two very large institutions at the beginning of my career, with my last day of employment with the second one ending in my early 20's. Since then I have only worked for small companies. I knew early on that a big impersonal company was not my cup of tea.

I would discourage anyone in their 20's from stating that they want to work until they are 53 or so years old. The reality is you really have no idea how you will feel in 30 years about your job or career. By all means, do everything you can to become financially independent as soon as feasible. And listen to all the advice about living below your means. But don't assume that you won't want to work in your 50's, or won't find it fulfilling. I really enjoy being a part of an enterprise and coming up with new ideas and new ways to do things. And I enjoy the teamwork associated with being with others in an organization.

I chose to leave my last position because I was burned out. I was the CEO of my company and everything that went wrong ultimately was my responsibility to deal with. It just became too exhausting for me, and it was time for me to let it go and do something else with my life. Now I'm working part time doing consulting, and loving the freedom I have, along with the ability to keep a toe hold in the work place, along with continuing to have a nice bit of income coming in. However, I do not need the income, and if I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't be doing it.

That was my experience. But as they say, YMMV.