Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-29-2008, 08:01 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
i personally think these target funds are a scam to keep the boomers money longer and keep collecting fees

for 30 years the financial media told us to rebalance into bonds as we get older. of course the stock fund people don't want to lose the fees, so they make up these target retirement funds
You can duplicate the target funds yourself for a cheaper total expense ratio
__________________

__________________
Notmuchlonger is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-01-2008, 09:29 AM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notmuchlonger View Post
You can duplicate the target funds yourself for a cheaper total expense ratio
Target Retirement 2015 0.19% expense ratio, 3.07% current yield - plus early SS, plus small non cola pension meets the fundamental technical requirement for my ER - aka ENOUGH! .

With no spreadsheets for rebalancing or budgeting(just cheap habit patterns) and my trusty No. 2 pencil gathering dust - I don't even bill myself an hourly rate for my time.

Now the putz - picking a few good stocks to keep the hormones in check I put in the catagory of golf, kayaks, going to the gym etc, etc. Do not even count the hours.

Others might call it disease management.

heh heh heh - I prefer it to be a fun pursuit of the Holy Grail - sort like the mythical Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville - although I'm not a Parrothead. Kansas City is just ducky with me - so far!
__________________

__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 10:21 AM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
the point of the funds is to keep you in one fund for life rather than rebalancing into different asset classes and different funds and keep you paying expense ratios into that fund
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 10:26 AM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
calculated risk is running a story about problems in the municipal bond market. looking to put some safe money in there maybe next week maybe in the next few weeks

Vallejo, California is close to filing BK and with the problems at Ambac and MBIA there are some risks to the NAV price
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 09:40 PM   #45
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DblDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
the point of the funds is to keep you in one fund for life rather than rebalancing into different asset classes and different funds and keep you paying expense ratios into that fund
Which as UncleMick pointed out is low (at Vanguard). How much would many investors have wasted spent on transaction fees etc moving their money around chasing the latest hot asset. For many these are a much better retirement investment then the vast majority of alternatives out there.

DD
__________________
DblDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 04:26 AM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Long-term investor. I will rebalance as normal.

I continue to add to my equity position through my 401k.

The rest of our new money goes to fixed since we are preparing for FIRE in the next few years.
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 01:21 PM   #47
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by novaman View Post
So the news is not encouraging. Real estate downturn, sub prime mess, weak dollar, inflation--stagflation.

What are your thoughts on investment strategies for today?
I got out of US-dollar-denominated assets as much as possible (dollar's on the downswing and with the Fed printing money like crazy, it will probably go lower). The Fed can't keep printing money forever without it having a negative effect on the dollar. When the dollar falls your buying power disappears. If you're in US dollar assets, you may have a few more dollars after a while, but they will buy less because prices will go up. The Fed says there's no inflation - Ha! Just take a short drive to the gas pump or the grocery store.

Anyway, here's what I'm doing with my money:

I sold my S&P 500 Index fund.

I sold my REITs, which had been way down, and will probably continue to fall as the sub-prime mess expands.

I bought a gold mining fund (UNWPX), which has been doing great lately, and probably will continue to as the dollar falls and investors flee to hard assets.

I shorted the NASDAQ by buying the QID ETF.

I shorted financials with the SKF ETF.

I bought some foreign currency and energy stocks.

I'm holding my PCRDX commodities fund.

I shorted GM due to their massive debt and Yahoo because the Microsoft deal will probably fall apart.

I shorted Diebold today on my guess that Diebold will reject the takeover bid from United Technologies.

So far this mix seems to be doing pretty good.

I'm going to open a commodity futures account so I can speculate with a small portion of my assets and maybe hit the big one out of the park.

Cheers,

Patrick
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 02:11 PM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick View Post
Target Retirement 2015 0.19% expense ratio, 3.07% current yield - plus early SS, plus small non cola pension meets the fundamental technical requirement for my ER - aka ENOUGH! .

With no spreadsheets for rebalancing or budgeting(just cheap habit patterns) and my trusty No. 2 pencil gathering dust - I don't even bill myself an hourly rate for my time.

Now the putz - picking a few good stocks to keep the hormones in check I put in the catagory of golf, kayaks, going to the gym etc, etc. Do not even count the hours.

Others might call it disease management.

heh heh heh - I prefer it to be a fun pursuit of the Holy Grail - sort like the mythical Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville - although I'm not a Parrothead. Kansas City is just ducky with me - so far!
what is the total return? vanguard says just over 9% since inception which is less than their other funds.
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 02:22 PM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I got out of US-dollar-denominated assets as much as possible (dollar's on the downswing and with the Fed printing money like crazy, it will probably go lower). The Fed can't keep printing money forever without it having a negative effect on the dollar. When the dollar falls your buying power disappears. If you're in US dollar assets, you may have a few more dollars after a while, but they will buy less because prices will go up. The Fed says there's no inflation - Ha! Just take a short drive to the gas pump or the grocery store.

Anyway, here's what I'm doing with my money:

I sold my S&P 500 Index fund.

I sold my REITs, which had been way down, and will probably continue to fall as the sub-prime mess expands.

I bought a gold mining fund (UNWPX), which has been doing great lately, and probably will continue to as the dollar falls and investors flee to hard assets.

I shorted the NASDAQ by buying the QID ETF.

I shorted financials with the SKF ETF.

I bought some foreign currency and energy stocks.

I'm holding my PCRDX commodities fund.

I shorted GM due to their massive debt and Yahoo because the Microsoft deal will probably fall apart.

I shorted Diebold today on my guess that Diebold will reject the takeover bid from United Technologies.

So far this mix seems to be doing pretty good.

I'm going to open a commodity futures account so I can speculate with a small portion of my assets and maybe hit the big one out of the park.

Cheers,

Patrick
damn, and i'm trying to get into a US $$$$ asset as i type this

trying to buy some QID but it's too expensive compared to nasdaq's performance today. want to pay around $53.50 and it's $54.67 as i type this
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 02:36 PM   #50
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
damn, and i'm trying to get into a US $$$$ asset as i type this

trying to buy some QID but it's too expensive compared to nasdaq's performance today. want to pay around $53.50 and it's $54.67 as i type this
Well, you'd be shorting the market, which appears to be a good thing at this point. Jump on in, the water's fine.
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 02:44 PM   #51
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
might have us a reversal in the last 15 minutes

looks like an inverse head and shoulders on the sp500 and nasdaq
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 02:44 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
i personally think these target funds are a scam to keep the boomers money longer and keep collecting fees

for 30 years the financial media told us to rebalance into bonds as we get older. of course the stock fund people don't want to lose the fees, so they make up these target retirement funds
Are you including Vanguard in that thought, because they're the biggest player in that market.......

FWIW,you can use ETF's to do a target fund yourself, and almost as cheap.........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 03:45 PM   #53
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 183
Lots of laughs today people

Quote:
the point of the funds is to keep you in one fund for life rather than rebalancing into different asset classes and different funds and keep you paying expense ratios into that fund
Quote:
FWIW,you can use ETF's to do a target fund yourself, and almost as cheap
al - Have you ever looked at the holdings of TR funds? Thats kind of the point, to keep you in one fund for life... ie - don't mess with it, don't market time, its intended for hands-off people who would otherwise get raked over by their greedy commission-based FA.

Your complaint about not rebalancing into different asset classes may make some believe you have no idea what a TR fund is made of (different asset classes?).

Quote:
looks like an inverse head and shoulders on the sp500 and nasdaq
No predicative value whatsoever. You cannot predict the future by looking at past price movements. This has been debunked so many times and yet we still have chartists out there (hope springs eternal).

The market timers here are always good for a laugh with their doom and gloom. Perhaps a little history lesson may make some feel better. Recall in the early 1990s how bad things were, with many of the pundits at the time saying the market was overvalued, due for a huge correction, we should be all in cash, etc.

What happened? The biggest bull run of the century.

Sorry, but no matter how informed you think you are the odds are against you succeeding by market timing.
__________________
innova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 05:47 PM   #54
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by innova View Post
Lots of laughs today people
Sorry, but no matter how informed you think you are the odds are against you succeeding by market timing.
I always wonder, why are those who do not believe in market timing so sure it is wrong to try it. I've read all the studies, etc., but I think there are people out there that have made a lot of money market timing. I made quite a bit of money doing it myself, riding short term waves, jumping in and out. I took very little risk and was lucky (?) enough to quit when it no longer worked (the trendiness vanished). Trading markets in solid trends is not impossible.

An example is the Kirk blog. He has done very well for years, check out his record. He may not be able to do it forever, but he could quit right now and he'd be ahead of anyone buying and holding. The odds may be against you, but it is not impossible in my opinion.

Has anyone else made any money trading? I say give market timers a break. The odds may be against them but they can operate under a much less risky senario than the buy and holders which is why they do it. Some win, and probably more lose, but 100% do not lose.

P.S. I just looked up the Kirk record, around 25% a year for 8 years, I believe all of that was fully trackable on his site.
__________________
RockOn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 05:48 PM   #55
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
they teach at business schools, good enough for me

and it was originally pioneered by a nobody named Charles Dow
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 05:56 PM   #56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by innova View Post
Lots of laughs today people




al - Have you ever looked at the holdings of TR funds? Thats kind of the point, to keep you in one fund for life... ie - don't mess with it, don't market time, its intended for hands-off people who would otherwise get raked over by their greedy commission-based FA.

Your complaint about not rebalancing into different asset classes may make some believe you have no idea what a TR fund is made of (different asset classes?).



No predicative value whatsoever. You cannot predict the future by looking at past price movements. This has been debunked so many times and yet we still have chartists out there (hope springs eternal).

The market timers here are always good for a laugh with their doom and gloom. Perhaps a little history lesson may make some feel better. Recall in the early 1990s how bad things were, with many of the pundits at the time saying the market was overvalued, due for a huge correction, we should be all in cash, etc.

What happened? The biggest bull run of the century.

Sorry, but no matter how informed you think you are the odds are against you succeeding by market timing.
saved me some cash by keeping me from buying qid today

i know a devout buy and holder, kind of sad to see him lose a lot of money several years ago holding junk while he kept faith that it would come back

and FA's are for morons
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 09:52 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,052
Looks to me like QID hits resistance around $60.64. JMO.
__________________
Art G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 09:55 AM   #58
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art G View Post
Looks to me like QID hits resistance around $60.64. JMO.
Are you using technical analysis for this conclusion?
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 09:58 AM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Are you using technical analysis for this conclusion?
Ayep.
__________________
Art G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 10:37 AM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by innova View Post
Lots of laughs today people
Your post made me chuckle.........

I for one think the old "myth" that you should be more and more into bonds as you get older should be thrown out the window in lieu of people living longer and longer. Do YOU really want to be 65-70% in BONDs when you are 75? I know I don't............
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Climate Change - choice between 13" and 16.5" seal level rise? ERD50 Other topics 22 05-07-2007 11:09 AM
Four Pillars of Investing - Efficient Market Theory!?!? Running_Man FIRE and Money 54 04-04-2007 10:41 PM
"Affordable" town in warm climate for single old babe Zoocat Life after FIRE 142 03-16-2007 06:36 AM
MOVED: "Affordable" town in warm climate for single old babe REWahoo FIRE and Money 0 01-11-2007 06:36 PM
The Current Market Value Of Your House Danny Other topics 17 03-25-2006 01:03 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:39 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.