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to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-30-2006, 03:48 PM   #1
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to Janus or not to Janus

I started investing with Janus in the beginning of 2003(growth and income). I've had nothing but great returns so far. Average around 18%. After all I've learned from this forum I've since allocated and have a pretty good portfolio. I've heard a lot of mixed feelings about this company and I'm a little concerned. I already have about half of my portfolio in indexed funds in the TSP. Should I consider maybe T. Rowe Price or Vanguard. Maybe Janus has gotten their act together and I should stick it out. After all Janus is probably doing everything in its power to make up for their mistakes...right? My exp. ratio at Janus is around 1%
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-30-2006, 04:04 PM   #2
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus

Janus is fine. Many of their funds have performed very well. Actually, I've had better returns from Janus last year than Vanguard. I have funds with both companies.
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-31-2006, 10:50 AM   #3
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus

As someone who invested almost 100% in janus funds through the 90's (hey, you were nuts not to, right?), i'm going to take the other tack. They demonstrated a good degree of scumbaggery. In my experience, such scumbaggery is systemic. Replacing a "bad" couple of guys in the management group doesnt usuall solve this problem entirely. Often the same folks who put the "bad" management in place also put the "new good" management in place.

An analogy may be in order. Your spouse cheats on you and you find out. Maybe they'll walk the straight line from then on. Maybe they wont. Will you trust them to spend the weekend out of town with their aunt sally, who reportedly doesnt own a phone? Ehhhhh....not likely.

You can get good returns from fund families that dont cheat, or at least havent gotten caught yet. Might even let them take your money to visit aunt sally.
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-31-2006, 11:07 AM   #4
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus

The majority of my funds are with Janus, and I'm doing pretty well for the time being. Unfortunately though, I started investing and putting in a lot of money right around 1999-2000, and they took a hard hit with the tech bubble burst, 9/11, and the ensuing recession. I think just about anybody who started putting in money around 2002-2003 would be doing fine by now, but then again it might be that way with just about any mutual fund.

I do remember them coming under some kind of scrutiny awhile back, though. And a guy here at work used to be heavliy invested in them, but bailed before things started going south in 2001. I dunno what he switched to, though.
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-31-2006, 11:32 AM   #5
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus

"Market timing activity within Janus funds was uncovered during Attorney General Spitzer's investigation of Canary Capital Partners in the summer of 2003. Since that time, coordinated investigations by the regulators revealed that Janus entered into a series of agreements with select investors which permitted these preferred investors to engage in improper, frequent short-term trading of Janus mutual funds while diluting the returns of other fund shareholders. Attorney General Salazar began his own inquiry of market timing abuses at Janus in October."

In short, I believe they allowed their large investors to purchase or sell funds at "yesterdays" prices even though it was "today". To the benefit of those investors, and the detriment of everyone else who owned their funds.
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-31-2006, 12:47 PM   #6
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus

that sounds pretty dirty.
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-31-2006, 12:49 PM   #7
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus

Yeah, its 100% illegal in black and white, not some funny fringe thing or open to interpretation.

And the trader didnt make that decision on their own. Or their supervisor. Or theirs.
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus
Old 01-31-2006, 05:49 PM   #8
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Re: to Janus or not to Janus

Check out the SEC Litigation for Janus

Looks like Janus paid $100 million. I'd leave quickly.

- Alec
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