Top 1%

Seems like you'd need to have a table that listed every possible buy year/sell year combo and the resulting inflation correction. And we'd have to look up that number for each sale. While I like the idea, and it would be nice with Turbo Tax doing the work, no way would I want to add that task to a non-computerized return.
Yeah, that was pretty much my thought unless you assigned every year an "index value" without regard to the day of the year. Thus a holding period of 1/1/2008 to 12/31/2011 would be treated the same as 12/31/2008 to 1/1/2011, even though the latter was barely half as long.
 
Dividends? They are double taxed already -- a dollar of profits are taxed to the corporation, and then the fraction of a dollar they pay out with that "after tax" profit is taxed again to the shareholder.

Capital gains? If I hold an asset for 20 years and the nominal asset value doubles -- but inflation over that time has cut the purchasing power of a dollar in half --

If taxes are to be raised on the wealthy, better to just increase the marginal rate, IMO. There is a good reason why the tax code cuts a "break" for dividends and *long term* capital gains. And I think these reasons should be better articulated by policymakers.
I don't actually care whether CGs and dividends go up.. I just believe the path forward requires cuts and taxes. We were doing fine before the 1981 cuts and don't appear to have improved with them. I think the wealth gap was rapidly widening with dividends and CGs were 20% - so double hits, drags, whatever the wealthy were doing just fine.

Bottom line, we can afford national health care and a modest social security safety net with the 1% continuing to thrive. It will admittedly involve some substantial health care reforms (which I don't see coming soon). It will also require some sacrifice by the "normal well off" within the 99% (e.g. my current level now that I am ERd) :) Something along the lines of letting all of the tax cuts expire when the economy stabilizes. Alas, I am not optimistic. I think we will break things worse than they are and nobody but the upper 5-10% will come out thriving.
 
I don't actually care whether CGs and dividends go up.. I just believe the path forward requires cuts and taxes. We were doing fine before the 1981 cuts and don't appear to have improved with them. I think the wealth gap was rapidly widening with dividends and CGs were 20% - so double hits, drags, whatever the wealthy were doing just fine.
Before the 1986 tax reforms, of course, the highest brackets were often never seen by the wealthy because of the almost unlimited ability to shelter income. So one who supports higher taxes really can't talk about the "glory days" of 70-90% top tax brackets -- I believe it was JFK who pushed the reduction of the top bracket from 90% to 70% -- without also recalling all the shelters which led to some folks legally paying zero income tax on million dollar incomes.

But yeah, the bottom line is that almost everyone realizes shared sacrifices are necessary -- as long as it's only other people who are sharing in it. We're all so adamant about protecting our own interests that we fight any shared sacrifices that require that we do, in fact, share in it. We need to raise taxes on everyone making one dollar more than me. And we need to cut all spending except the spending I benefit most from.
 
Seems like you'd need to have a table that listed every possible buy year/sell year combo and the resulting inflation correction. And we'd have to look up that number for each sale. While I like the idea, and it would be nice with Turbo Tax doing the work, no way would I want to add that task to a non-computerized return.
If anyone is doing a lot of buying and selling they have to keep track of all those trades anyway (date bought/date sold, etc). I doubt there are many folks doing that manually anymore, and the set of people doing that manually who also do their taxes with pencil and on paper forms has got to be tiny. If they want to enjoy that pain, then they should be free to do so.
We make merchants figure out and collect the taxes when a stick of gum is sold, it seems little to ask to have people compute the inflation-adjusted gain on their sale of 2000 shares of XXX stock.
 
But yeah, the bottom line is that almost everyone realizes shared sacrifices are necessary -- as long as it's only other people who are sharing in it. We're all so adamant about protecting our own interests that we fight any shared sacrifices that require that we do, in fact, share in it. We need to raise taxes on everyone making one dollar more than me. And we need to cut all spending except the spending I benefit most from.

"No sacrifice is to great, especially when somebody else makes it!"...
spoken by Fiduciary Blurp, just before he sent Rocky and Bullwinkle on a dangerous mission to stop the wailing whale - Maybe Dick.
 
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Worse than that... 50% of the population have a below average income!!

Usually IME when people say "average", they are thinking of the mean. Some of us thought that 50% of the population have incomes below the median income. It could be both in some cases, for example if the income distribution fit a perfect Gaussian distribution (bell curve) so that the median and mean income were identical.


:hide: I just can't help being this way! Oh well, sorry.
 
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Who is the top 1%? Any ideas? We have all these people wearing badges that say 99%.

People who have defined benefit pensions might have to consider themselves part of the 1% if they compare how much their net worth would have to be to actually be able to receive the pension for 30 years.

What do you think?

OTOH, if you're 30 and have a decent job, the pv of your likely income probably significantly exceeds the pv of most pensions.

If I were going to search for the top 1%, I'm sure that I would slice the numbers by age groups.

(I haven't seen any "I'm the 99% badges".)
 
I saw a parade of jackasses going down the road by an upscale mall nearby with their nonsense signs, slogans and whatnot. Tied up traffic for miles and there were more police than jackasses.

The more you use this stupid sloganeering term of percentages, the longer you prolong the doomed existence of this idiocy.
 
Usually IME when people say "average", they are thinking of the mean. Some of us thought that 50% of the population have incomes below the median income. It could be both in some cases, for example if the income distribution fit a perfect Gaussian distribution (bell curve) so that the median and mean income were identical.


:hide: I just can't help being this way! Oh well, sorry.

Don't forget the mode. :)
 
Don't forget the mode. :)

The Mode Squad; I really liked them.

Link was the most [-]common[/-] popular. He Had the coolest [-]car[/-] means of transportation, always spoke In a measured scale, was always in in phase with Julie and Peter, Gave us permission to access the characters and , I think he was from Shelby County, Illinois.
 
I don't actually care whether CGs and dividends go up.. I just believe the path forward requires cuts and taxes. We were doing fine before the 1981 cuts and don't appear to have improved with them. I think the wealth gap was rapidly widening with dividends and CGs were 20% - so double hits, drags, whatever the wealthy were doing just fine.

Bottom line, we can afford national health care and a modest social security safety net with the 1% continuing to thrive. It will admittedly involve some substantial health care reforms (which I don't see coming soon). It will also require some sacrifice by the "normal well off" within the 99% (e.g. my current level now that I am ERd) :) Something along the lines of letting all of the tax cuts expire when the economy stabilizes. Alas, I am not optimistic. I think we will break things worse than they are and nobody but the upper 5-10% will come out thriving.



Agreed.
 
The more you use this stupid sloganeering term of percentages, the longer you prolong the doomed existence of this idiocy.
I wouldn't count them out just yet, though they may well slide off into oblivion. It would not surprise me if objections to 'too big to fail' and/or campaign finance reform (far too much political influence bought by the .01%) aren't widely held even majority views. Whether OWS champions either or both is an open question.

What would mainstream politics be without "stupid sloganeering" anyway?
 
Usually IME when people say "average", they are thinking of the mean. Some of us thought that 50% of the population have incomes below the median income. It could be both in some cases, for example if the income distribution fit a perfect Gaussian distribution (bell curve) so that the median and mean income were identical.

And to add to the confusion, the WashPost blog linked earlier has this in it;

That means the wealthiest 1 percent held an average of 225 times the wealth of the average median household in 2009 — a ratio that was 125 in 1962.
I guess if you don't know what average means nor what median means, then you just use "average median".
 
And to add to the confusion, the WashPost blog linked earlier has this in it;


I guess if you don't know what average means nor what median means, then you just use "average median".

Well, if you have a time series of medians during 2009, I guess you could take a mean/average of those medians. I would assume that was what they meant. Why that statistic would be of any interest is another matter....
 
Now, the average of the medians and the median of the averages are not necessarily the same. So, which is better?

Argh, forget it. I am going back to the "motorhome" thread.
 
Midpack said:
What would mainstream politics be without "stupid sloganeering" anyway?
Vastly better off.
Agreed. But I don't know that the stupid slogans ("talking points") all political candidates rely on are any more intelligent than many protesters...
 
If taxes are to be raised on the wealthy, better to just increase the marginal rate, IMO. There is a good reason why the tax code cuts a "break" for dividends and *long term* capital gains. And I think these reasons should be better articulated by policymakers.

I'd like to see the tax code simplified so that capital gains and dividends are taxed as income.
 
I'd like to see the tax code simplified so that capital gains and dividends are taxed as income.

And I'd like to see the tax code changed so that neither are taxed.

So where does that leave us?


And a comment that I've been meaning to make regarding anyone claiming they are the 99% - I don't care who you are or what you represent. You can't go around and claim that you are speaking for others. Speak for yourselves.

-ERD50
 
I'd like to see the tax code simplified so that capital gains and dividends are taxed as income.

The money used to earn capital gains and dividends has already been taxed as income before it is invested. It's unfair to tax capital gains/dividends at all. But I agree with simplifying the tax code. Flat tax, no deductions, and eliminate capital gains and inheritance tax.
 
The money used to earn capital gains and dividends has already been taxed as income before it is invested. It's unfair to tax capital gains/dividends at all. But I agree with simplifying the tax code. Flat tax, no deductions, and eliminate capital gains and inheritance tax.
+1! :clap:
 
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