|
|
12-18-2011, 09:53 AM
|
#41
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
Usually IME when people say "average", they are thinking of the mean. Some of us thought that 50% of the population have incomes below the median income. It could be both in some cases, for example if the income distribution fit a perfect Gaussian distribution (bell curve) so that the median and mean income were identical.
|
And to add to the confusion, the WashPost blog linked earlier has this in it;
Quote:
That means the wealthiest 1 percent held an average of 225 times the wealth of the average median household in 2009 — a ratio that was 125 in 1962.
|
I guess if you don't know what average means nor what median means, then you just use "average median".
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
12-18-2011, 10:05 AM
|
#42
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
And to add to the confusion, the WashPost blog linked earlier has this in it;
I guess if you don't know what average means nor what median means, then you just use "average median".
|
Well, if you have a time series of medians during 2009, I guess you could take a mean/average of those medians. I would assume that was what they meant. Why that statistic would be of any interest is another matter....
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 10:06 AM
|
#43
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
|
Now, the average of the medians and the median of the averages are not necessarily the same. So, which is better?
Argh, forget it. I am going back to the "motorhome" thread.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 10:08 AM
|
#44
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
Now, the average of the medians and the median of the averages are not necessarily the same. So, which is better?
|
How to Lie with Statistics might be relevant.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 10:52 AM
|
#45
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
What would mainstream politics be without "stupid sloganeering" anyway?
|
Vastly better off.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 11:05 AM
|
#46
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,303
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
What would mainstream politics be without "stupid sloganeering" anyway?
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Vastly better off.
|
Agreed. But I don't know that the stupid slogans ("talking points") all political candidates rely on are any more intelligent than many protesters...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 01:12 PM
|
#47
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
If taxes are to be raised on the wealthy, better to just increase the marginal rate, IMO. There is a good reason why the tax code cuts a "break" for dividends and *long term* capital gains. And I think these reasons should be better articulated by policymakers.
|
I'd like to see the tax code simplified so that capital gains and dividends are taxed as income.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”
Current AA: 75% Equity Funds / 15% Bonds / 5% Stable Value /2% Cash / 3% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 01:24 PM
|
#48
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,891
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun
I'd like to see the tax code simplified so that capital gains and dividends are taxed as income.
|
And I'd like to see the tax code changed so that neither are taxed.
So where does that leave us?
And a comment that I've been meaning to make regarding anyone claiming they are the 99% - I don't care who you are or what you represent. You can't go around and claim that you are speaking for others. Speak for yourselves.
-ERD50
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 01:49 PM
|
#49
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 16,600
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun
I'd like to see the tax code simplified so that capital gains and dividends are taxed as income.
|
The money used to earn capital gains and dividends has already been taxed as income before it is invested. It's unfair to tax capital gains/dividends at all. But I agree with simplifying the tax code. Flat tax, no deductions, and eliminate capital gains and inheritance tax.
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 01:53 PM
|
#50
|
Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Omaha
Posts: 24
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar
The money used to earn capital gains and dividends has already been taxed as income before it is invested. It's unfair to tax capital gains/dividends at all. But I agree with simplifying the tax code. Flat tax, no deductions, and eliminate capital gains and inheritance tax.
|
+1!
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 02:16 PM
|
#51
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,303
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar
The money used to earn capital gains and dividends has already been taxed as income before it is invested. It's unfair to tax capital gains/dividends at all.
|
Warren Buffett disagrees...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 02:17 PM
|
#52
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,328
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
Usually IME when people say "average", they are thinking of the mean.
|
Hey, I resemble that remark. But aren't we correct to do so? The "mean" is the arithmetical average isn't it?
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 02:36 PM
|
#53
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
Hey, I resemble that remark. But aren't we correct to do so? The "mean" is the arithmetical average isn't it?
|
Makes sense to me, too, although there are always those who have to complicate things... I prefer to just say "mean" because it seems clear to everyone.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 03:36 PM
|
#54
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwestern city
Posts: 4,061
|
I guess many - if not most - of the participants on this website are part of the 1%. Nothing wrong with that if it is earned legally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoreau
Who is the top 1%? Any ideas?
|
__________________
Very conservative with investments. Not ER'd yet, 48 years old. Please do not take anything I write or imply as legal, financial or medical advice directed to you. Contact your own financial advisor, healthcare provider, or attorney for financial, medical and legal advice.
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 03:42 PM
|
#55
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 329
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar
The money used to earn capital gains and dividends has already been taxed as income before it is invested. It's unfair to tax capital gains/dividends at all.
|
I've seen this viewpoint several times. Can someone explain why this double taxation is unfair for dividends, as opposed to money which I earned as a paycheck (already taxed) and then put into a saving account (taxed on interest) or other investment vehicle such as real estate (gains taxed upon sale)?
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 04:52 PM
|
#56
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,455
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar
The money used to earn capital gains and dividends has already been taxed as income before it is invested. It's unfair to tax capital gains/dividends at all. But I agree with simplifying the tax code. Flat tax, no deductions, and eliminate capital gains and inheritance tax.
|
The proposal sounds good with the exception of flat rate for everyone. The biggest question is "what is that rate?".
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 06:03 PM
|
#57
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 4,946
|
I for one look forward to the day when the current social aberration of a "middle class" withers away, and we can return to a proper landed gentry, with supporting professional class and military, built on the solid foundation of the peasantry. I might be accused of pining for the good old days, but it was a solid, stable system that lasted for far longer than our so-called "modern" society. With modern technology, a small professional engineering population, and the combination of robots and semi-skilled peasant labor such as we currently employ across Asia, this seems like it should be readily achievable.
With modest effort, we should be able to transition to such a social structure within thirty years. The old impediments to this, such as the various "workers" movements, have been largely dismantled, and the remaining tasks really aren't much more than ongoing campaigns to repeal existing laws and convince the proletariat (soon to be peasants) that this is in their best interest.
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 06:29 PM
|
#58
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,733
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette
I for one look forward to the day when the current social aberration of a "middle class" withers away, and we can return to a proper landed gentry, with supporting professional class and military, built on the solid foundation of the peasantry. I might be accused of pining for the good old days, but it was a solid, stable system that lasted for far longer than our so-called "modern" society. With modern technology, a small professional engineering population, and the combination of robots and semi-skilled peasant labor such as we currently employ across Asia, this seems like it should be readily achievable.
With modest effort, we should be able to transition to such a social structure within thirty years. The old impediments to this, such as the various "workers" movements, have been largely dismantled, and the remaining tasks really aren't much more than ongoing campaigns to repeal existing laws and convince the proletariat (soon to be peasants) that this is in their best interest.
|
+1
I'd also like to bring back debtors prison. It is entirely unfair that some of the prole believe that can discharge their debt with the only consequence being a lower FICO score.
Debtor prisons are essential for recolonizing area rich in exploitable natural resources like the American Plains (Dakotas) and Serbia, Mongolia but harsh climates.
As an added advantage, these are fine places to send the various protestors. We certainly can't have any more years like 2011, where this rabble is named persons of the year!
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 06:32 PM
|
#59
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 16,600
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Warren Buffett disagrees...
|
Yes he does. I respect his opinion. But I think a flat income tax combined with a consumption tax would be better. The 1%ers would probably end up paying more overall tax through a consumption tax/flat income tax combo than under Buffett's proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by figner
I've seen this viewpoint several times. Can someone explain why this double taxation is unfair for dividends, as opposed to money which I earned as a paycheck (already taxed) and then put into a saving account (taxed on interest) or other investment vehicle such as real estate (gains taxed upon sale)?
|
The true flat tax would not result in tax on dividends, interest, or real estate gains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky
The proposal sounds good with the exception of flat rate for everyone. The biggest question is "what is that rate?".
|
First get the sum of expenses. Then subtract all govt revenues aside from income tax. Then divide by the sum of all incomes. The result would be the rate. Something tells me it's not that simple though.
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 06:50 PM
|
#60
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp
+1
I'd also like to bring back debtors prison. It is entirely unfair that some of the prole believe that can discharge their debt with the only consequence being a lower FICO score.
Debtor prisons are essential for recolonizing area rich in exploitable natural resources like the American Plains (Dakotas) and Serbia, Mongolia but harsh climates.
As an added advantage, these are fine places to send the various protestors. We certainly can't have any more years like 2011, where this rabble is named persons of the year!
|
LOL yeah..and what about those damn 12 year olds complaining about 14 hour days in the mines.....and a bowl of thin gruel isn't enough for them? The very idea!
Where's Mr Bumble,the Beadle, when you really need him?
__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|