Top One Percent? Half a Percent? Tenth of a Percent?

[medved]

I have seen different statistics in terms of what is the minimum or median income, and minimum or median net-worth, in the top one percent of the United States, the top .5%, and the top .1%.

Anyone have reliable statistics for this?

If you are wondering why it matters, I think the answer is it does not matter. But I am confused by having seen very different statistics, and I thought someone must have reliable numbers. (I guess for net worth, it might depend on what one includes/excludes?)

 

[rodi]

It took just under $429,000 to make into this elite group in 2013, according to the latest data from the Internal Revenue Service. A year earlier, Americans had to have about $435,000 in adjusted gross income to be part of the Top 1%.

What it takes to get into the Top 1% - Dec. 29, 2015

 

[rodi]

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-top-1-by-wealth-not-income/?_r=0

8.4 Billion for net worth.

Oops - that should be 8.4 Million. Thanks for the correction(s)

 

[txtig]

$8.4 million (not billion).

 

[RobLJ]

I think net worth is a much better measure. I used to have a link to the Census Data broken down by more than quintiles, but lost it--but this will do.
1.8 million apparently is the figure for the 95%ers, which I find surprising.
This is from 2013 Consumer Finances data, so I feel pretty sure the required figures are quite a bit higher now, probably by 20-30%.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-top-1-by-wealth-not-income/?_r=0

8.4 Billion for net worth.

 

[W2R]

I'm nowhere near either $429,000 in income, or $8.4 million net worth.

But I feel rich in that I have what I need. Honestly, life is awfully good with a whole lot less than that.

 

[adrift]

I have seen different statistics in terms of what is the minimum or median income, and minimum or median net-worth, in the top one percent of the United States, the top .5%, and the top .1%.

Anyone have reliable statistics for this?

I think the most reliable data for net worth is probably the Survey of Consumer Finances. But, this requires you to rephrase the question to ask about net worth in 2013. Also, it's household net worth.

What do we mean by net worth?

Assets: Interest-earning assets held at financial institutions (savings accounts, money market deposit accounts, certificates of deposit, interest-earning checking accounts); other interest-earning assets (U.S. government securities, municipal or corporate bonds); stocks and mutual fund shares; rental property; mortgages held for sale of real estate; amount due from sale of business or property; non-interest earning checking accounts; U.S. savings Bonds; home ownership; vacation homes and other real estate; IRA and KEOGH accounts; 401K and Thrift Savings Plans; vehicles; and other financial assets.

Liabilities: Secured liabilities (margin and broker accounts; mortgages on own home; mortgages on rental property; mortgages on other homes or real estate; debt on business or profession; and vehicle loans) and unsecured liabilities (credit card and store bills; doctor, dentist, hospital, and nursing home bills; loans from individuals; loans from financial institutions; educational loans; and other unsecured liabilities).

Net worth = Assets - Liabilities

Here are two websites that take a deeper dive into this data:

https://dqydj.com/net-worth-in-the-united-states-zooming-in-on-the-top-centiles/

and

Net Worth Percentile Rank Calculator - Shnugi

 

[petershk]

I guess if you have more than you can spend you have infinity dollars and don't have to care

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[adrift]

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-top-1-by-wealth-not-income/?_r=0
8.4 Million for net worth.

That's an interesting article. It's written in 2012, it quoted statistics from the 2007 Survey of Consumer Finances, even though data from 2010 was available at that time.

According to the article, it took $8.4 million to be in the top 1%. According to the 2013 Survey of Consumer Finances, it took $7.9 million.

Should I assume that the "Gray Lady" has a follow up article that there is a reduction in income inequality?

 

[donheff]

We are definitely not a typical slice of the American pie around here. Most here who are ERd are in the top 10% or even 5%. Many aspiring to join us are already at that level.

 

[Totoro]

Should I assume that the "Gray Lady" has a follow up article that there is a reduction in income inequality?

Depends on whether the 'lower 50%' income group got higher or lower incomes in the mean time

 

[MichaelB]

We don't have that income or wealth either, but our grandchildren think we're the best, so who cares?

 

[travelover]

We don't have that income or wealth either, but our grandchildren think we're the best, so who cares?

Exactly. Comparing to others doesn't make my life better. I have more than enough. That is enough for me.

 

[Senator]

The one thing charts like this do, is to realize that most people are not in the upper 5% (by definition...), yet it really doesn't take that much in NW to achieve that.

Just $2M puts you in the upper 5%, at least back when the study was done. It should be easier to get to $2M, and more people in it, as time goes on. Of course, the 5% figure will rise too.

There was a time when I thought everyone had a few million at retirement, as it is not that hard to do. It does give me more confidence as I get ready to FIRE. I do not have grandkids (or even kids), so I better have money...

 

[travelover]

The one thing charts like this do, is to realize that most people are not in the upper 5% (by definition...), yet it really doesn't take that much in NW to achieve that. ...........

Is this chart per person or per family?

 

[eytonxav]

Now they should correlate those stats to happiness. I suspect the sweet spot for happiness would exclude the 1%.

 

[Danmar]

Now they should correlate those stats to happiness. I suspect the sweet spot for happiness would exclude the 1%.

Not sure why you think that? I am very happy. Assessing someone else's happiness seems kind of difficult, no?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Now they should correlate those stats to happiness. I suspect the sweet spot for happiness would exclude the 1%.

Distinct possibility. I have seen several articles that cite research that about 60K a year is the top of the bell curve for happiness. I haven't seen similar articles in relation to total net worth, however.

Being retired, my income has gone down quite a bit, but my happiness has definitely gone up!

 

[audreyh1]

Now they should correlate those stats to happiness. I suspect the sweet spot for happiness would exclude the 1%.

Why?

Because you have so much money to "worry" about?

 

[eytonxav]

Why?

Because you have so much money to "worry" about?

No, my point is that money does not buy happiness.

 

[audreyh1]

No, my point is that money does not buy happiness.

It sounded like you thought a lot of money made people less happy.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "sweet spot" and "exclude".

 

[Tadpole]

Well, darn it all, I guess I don't quite make the 0.1%-ile.

 

[eytonxav]

It sounded like you thought a lot of money made people less happy.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "sweet spot" and "exclude".

Just a simple comment that I thought wouldn't need much explanation, but if you insist, I suspect the happiness quotient sweet spot would be between 1% and 10%, and again, I doubt more money buys one more happiness, unless you are struggling to make ends meet. So would having more $ increase your happiness?

 

[Danmar]

No, my point is that money does not buy happiness.

Right, I think there may be general agreement on this. But I can assure you that having money doesn't necessarily make you unhappy either. If it did people would not try so hard to get money or would give it away once they got money.

I could make a case that being FI (however defined by an individual) makes that individual happier than not being FI? Money doesn't buy a lot of things such as love, respect, intelligence, sensitivity, wisdom. Why would we expect it would buy happiness which is probably the most individual ,subjective ,characteristic of them all?

Does being wealthy make you happy? Not sure. But I am very happy that I am wealthy and FI. In any event this topic has been discussed many times before without concensus. I also think most people would put the "sweet spot for happiness" if there is such a thing, right where they are. I would guess you are in the top 10%-1% range.

 

[Another Reader]

If, like me, you grew up with some amount of financial insecurity, you tend to worry more about having "enough." I'm wired to worry, so my net happiness (positive things minus worry and aggravation) is higher with a larger cushion. Being in the one percent would substantially increase my net happiness by reducing the worry and aggravation.