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Old 11-17-2011, 10:00 PM   #41
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Doggone, unclemick, you gotta get on some meds or whatever it takes. There are few enough New Orleanians left, as it is (and Kansas or not, you will always be a New Orleanian IMO). Besides, you would be missed if you left us before your time.
Na - down under 200 last two checkups with BP in range as well. Well maybe not BP - this thread is heating up.



heh heh heh - it's sticking with the diet and exercise over the long haul. . Now back to the pictures and er ah Tequila?
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:07 PM   #42
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Na - down under 200 last two checkups with BP in range as well. Well maybe not BP - this thread is heating up.



heh heh heh - it's sticking with the diet and exercise over the long haul. . Now back to the pictures and er ah Tequila?
Terrific!! Whew, that's a relief. Party on!
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:11 PM   #43
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Na - down under 200 last two checkups with BP in range as well. Well maybe not BP - this thread is heating up.



heh heh heh - it's sticking with the diet and exercise over the long haul. . Now back to the pictures and er ah Tequila?
Careful about kidding us about these things Uncle. We'll wind up killing you with love.

Ha
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:48 AM   #44
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Careful about kidding us about these things Uncle. We'll wind up killing you with love.

Ha
No, we'll whip out some references stating that the total cholesterol number is non-predictive and/or unimportant...
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:40 PM   #45
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No, we'll whip out some references stating that the total cholesterol number is non-predictive and/or unimportant...
Right - I get color graphs (Berkeley Heart Lab) showing molecule size distribution and other tests only a few of which I understand their explanation.

Back in 2009, 6' 0" 195 lbs, 38 inch waist, 400 total chloesterol my Doc understood having lived in Metaire for a while. My New Orleans diet(think fried everything) went out the window.

33 waist, 168 lbs and I would die for chili cheese fries and a Seafood platter.

Whaaa!

heh heh heh - I do sneak in some KC style pulled pork -light on the BBQ sauce once in a while.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:47 PM   #46
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33 waist, 168 lbs and I would die for because of chili cheese fries and a Seafood platter.
Still, there are worse things to die for
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:41 AM   #47
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An article about peer pressure is really needed to get folks to lose weight and other activities: A Team Approach to Weight Loss - NYTimes.com

I think you know the drill. You cannot have friends help you with all this, you need to have folks who can dish out tough love and disapproving comments when you stray. Friends who support you when you do something ill-advised are not helpful. I think it's similar to what this forum does. Note the comments about how the leader of a group can set the dynamic.

I don't know if I buy this. Like it or not, Weight Watchers and similar programs lousy track records. Really stinking lousy. Weight loss and weight loss maintenance is difficult and the odds are seriously stacked against you. For me, tough love would never work. I'd slap my tough lover across the face and walk out of the relationship.

From Jeffrey Friedman, the scientist who was a discoverer of Leptin, a hormone important in appetite:

“Twin studies, adoption studies, and studies of familial aggregation confirm a major contribution of genes to the development of obesity. Indeed, the heritability of obesity is equivalent to that of height and exceeds that of many disorders for which a genetic basis is generally accepted. It is worth noting that height has also increased significantly in Western countries in the 20th Century.”

“Feeding is a complex motivational behavior, meaning that many factors influence the likelihood that the behavior will be initiated. These factors include the unconscious urge to eat that is regulated by leptin and other hormones, the conscious desire to eat less (or more), sensory factors such as smell or taste, emotional state, and others. The greater the weight loss, the greater the hunger and, sooner or later for most dieters, a primal hunger trumps the conscious desire to be thin.”

“Obesity is not a personal failing. In trying to lose weight, the obese are fighting a difficult battle. It is a battle against biology, a battle that only the intrepid take on and one in which only a few prevail.” A war on obesity, not the obese. [Science. 2003] – PubMed – NCBI.

Now, it is time for me to sign off and pull out my bicycle. Once a person loses weight their crappy odds improve if they are exercisers. Over the past year I lost my excess weight, I live with hungry, and I bike and bike and bike. If I keep my weight off for a couple of years my odds will improve. Maybe forever I will need to follow Uncle Mick's advice and live agile, mobile and hostile.
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:45 AM   #48
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I'd slap my tough lover across the face with a slab of bacon and walk out of the relationship.
FIFY...
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:53 AM   #49
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studies of familial aggregation confirm a major contribution of genes to the development of obesity


The problem I see with that is that if the obesity is just genetic, it can't have increased so much in just a few generations. It usually takes thousands of generations to see a genetic shift, yet we've seen a dramatic increase in obesity just 30 years or so.

However, I agree with you that obesity is largely out of your control if you eat the standard American diet (especially a diet low in fat and high in grains).

The way I see it is this: Yes, it's genetic, but the genes are no different than they were 30 years ago. It's a genetic problem with the metabolism of carbs, and what's changed is the advice to eat more of them.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:04 AM   #50
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I'd slap my tough lover across the face and walk out
This sounds like one of Freebird's softball setups.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:37 AM   #51
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Hello Martha!

Ha
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:44 AM   #52
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Hi Martha ! We miss you a lot !
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:41 PM   #53
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I don't know if I buy this. Like it or not, Weight Watchers and similar programs lousy track records. Really stinking lousy. Weight loss and weight loss maintenance is difficult and the odds are seriously stacked against you. For me, tough love would never work. I'd slap my tough lover across the face and walk out of the relationship.

From Jeffrey Friedman, the scientist who was a discoverer of Leptin, a hormone important in appetite:

“Twin studies, adoption studies, and studies of familial aggregation confirm a major contribution of genes to the development of obesity. Indeed, the heritability of obesity is equivalent to that of height and exceeds that of many disorders for which a genetic basis is generally accepted. It is worth noting that height has also increased significantly in Western countries in the 20th Century.”

“Feeding is a complex motivational behavior, meaning that many factors influence the likelihood that the behavior will be initiated. These factors include the unconscious urge to eat that is regulated by leptin and other hormones, the conscious desire to eat less (or more), sensory factors such as smell or taste, emotional state, and others. The greater the weight loss, the greater the hunger and, sooner or later for most dieters, a primal hunger trumps the conscious desire to be thin.”

“Obesity is not a personal failing. In trying to lose weight, the obese are fighting a difficult battle. It is a battle against biology, a battle that only the intrepid take on and one in which only a few prevail.” A war on obesity, not the obese. [Science. 2003] – PubMed – NCBI.

Now, it is time for me to sign off and pull out my bicycle. Once a person loses weight their crappy odds improve if they are exercisers. Over the past year I lost my excess weight, I live with hungry, and I bike and bike and bike. If I keep my weight off for a couple of years my odds will improve. Maybe forever I will need to follow Uncle Mick's advice and live agile, mobile and hostile.
Another misconception, as I see it, is that aerobic exercise is helpful with weight control. Granted, there are hormonal/chemical changes that result, but "burning off" calories is somewhat self-defeating, since exercising will likely make you want to eat more...

Doesn't at all mean to stop, but I think resistance/weight training is also necessary, for more of the same hormonal/chemical reasons, and to slow the gradual loss of muscle as we age.

Changing the composition of the diet has varying success, but it's relatively easy to improve on the SAD. With individual differences, improving the diet is as important as the exact macro ratios of carb/fat/protein. Fewer industrial oils, less omega-6, fewer refined carbs...

I'm intrigued by the satiety hypothesis, but not convinced it's the major factor.
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:19 PM   #54
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Not one to have a scale, I had my annual and lost 2 lbs. I would have guessed I gained 10 lbs.
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Old 11-19-2011, 05:05 PM   #55
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[/I]

The problem I see with that is that if the obesity is just genetic, it can't have increased so much in just a few generations. It usually takes thousands of generations to see a genetic shift, yet we've seen a dramatic increase in obesity just 30 years or so.

However, I agree with you that obesity is largely out of your control if you eat the standard American diet (especially a diet low in fat and high in grains).

The way I see it is this: Yes, it's genetic, but the genes are no different than they were 30 years ago. It's a genetic problem with the metabolism of carbs, and what's changed is the advice to eat more of them.
Read Friedman. There are some indications there has been a change in our genetics, much like height. Of course, it isn't all genetics. And if there is any area of research that is filled with controversy it is research on weight. Hormones are important. There is some indication that losing weight throws levels of appetite suppression and appetite stimulating hormones way out of whack and they may stay that way indefinitely. How do you battle that? Low carb doesn't deal with that problem. There is some recent evidence that higher protein diets do help suppress appetite but it isn't conclusive and it isn't the entire picture. And all the evidence is still not clear. The only evidence that is clear is that people who lose weight by whatever means are extremely unlikely to keep that weight off. http://janetto.bol.ucla.edu/index_fi...etal2007AP.pdf
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Old 11-19-2011, 05:07 PM   #56
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Another misconception, as I see it, is that aerobic exercise is helpful with weight control. Granted, there are hormonal/chemical changes that result, but "burning off" calories is somewhat self-defeating, since exercising will likely make you want to eat more...

Doesn't at all mean to stop, but I think resistance/weight training is also necessary, for more of the same hormonal/chemical reasons, and to slow the gradual loss of muscle as we age.

Changing the composition of the diet has varying success, but it's relatively easy to improve on the SAD. With individual differences, improving the diet is as important as the exact macro ratios of carb/fat/protein. Fewer industrial oils, less omega-6, fewer refined carbs...

I'm intrigued by the satiety hypothesis, but not convinced it's the major factor.
Aerobic exercise doesn't do much for losing weight (as you say, exercise makes you hungry) but people who keep the weight off almost invariably are exercisers. This includes both aerobic and resistance/weight training. I am doing both.
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Old 11-19-2011, 05:57 PM   #57
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The only evidence that is clear is that people who lose weight by whatever means are extremely unlikely to keep that weight off.
I think "The Biggest Loser" followups have also clearly demonstrated that, although without the benefit of "peer review"...
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:08 PM   #58
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The statistics on long term maintenance of weight loss are abysmal. I think it is clear that long term success for significant weight loss requires great commitment. I emphasis "significant" weight loss. This morning I weighed in at WW. Most of the receptionists I've seen there typically have a pin that says they lost somewhere between 10 and 25 pounds. It is rare to see one who has lost a great deal and maintained it. Yes, they exist but just not common.

From everything I understand, maintaining weight loss is very, very difficult if you don't exercise regularly. And I don't mean exercise 30 minutes a day 3 times a week. Some of the best data on maintenance is that from those maintainers who have enrolled in the national weight control registry (loss of 30 pounds or more).

90% of them exercise, on average, about 1 hour a day. Everything I have read supports the idea that long term maintenance really does require for most people that kind of exercise all the time.

Also, people who lose weight have been found to have a permanently lower metabolism than someone who is the same weight and never lost weight. So the person who weighs 135 who used to weigh 185 will burn fewer calories doing the same activity as the person who always weighs 135. The research that I've read indicates that this is not a temporary change.

So, the person who loses weight and then thinks that he or she can eat like their always slim friend will often start gaining weight. To fight that the person has to continue to restrict calories and has to engage in significant exercise.

And, research is showing that the body even then fights back. The person who has lost weight may find appetite increases as the body tries to get you to go back to where you were.

So to keep weight off you have to first lose the weight, but then you have to battle increased hunger, and may find that you have to exercise an hour a day and have to continue eating the same calories that you were eating to lose weight (due to slower metabolism). If you aren't really, really committed to it, this can be very difficult.

I do think that genetics plays a huge factor in this as well. Although, it isn't necessarily everything. I wasn't really overweight as a child. As a late teenager I wanted to lose 5 or 10 pounds at time but I was within a healthy weight range. Then, as an adult, I went up, then down, then up, then down. About 20 years ago I became a lifetime member of WW losing from 167 pounds down to 119 pounds. I couldn't maintain it. I ended up gaining it all back, then gained weight while pregnant and have been trying to lose it ever since (my son is 17 now...). At some point, I was sure that I just had bad genetics. I was adopted so I didn't really know but assumed my genetic weight lottery was bad.

But, about 14 years ago after a long search, I found my birthmother. To my total shock I found that she was 5'1" and struggles to keep above 100 pounds and has never had a weight problem. I guess it is possible I have bad genetics on the paternal side (my search was not successful on that side) but she did say that when she knew my birth father he was of normal weight. So, I fortunately (?) don't have genetics to blame....

A great blog that talks a lot about weight loss maintenance is below (it is WW oriented but really has a lot that would apply to anyone losing weight and trying to maintain).

GoingSkiing | My Not So Humble Opinions on All Things Weighty
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:10 PM   #59
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The statistics on long term maintenance of weight loss are abysmal. I think it is clear that long term success for significant weight loss requires great commitment. I emphasis "significant" weight loss. This morning I weighed in at WW. Most of the receptionists I've seen there typically have a pin that says they lost somewhere between 10 and 25 pounds. It is rare to see one who has lost a great deal and maintained it. Yes, they exist but just not common.

From everything I understand, maintaining weight loss is very, very difficult if you don't exercise regularly. And I don't mean exercise 30 minutes a day 3 times a week. Some of the best data on maintenance is that from those maintainers who have enrolled in the national weight control registry (loss of 30 pounds or more).

90% of them exercise, on average, about 1 hour a day. Everything I have read supports the idea that long term maintenance really does require for most people that kind of exercise all the time.

Also, people who lose weight have been found to have a permanently lower metabolism than someone who is the same weight and never lost weight. So the person who weighs 135 who used to weigh 185 will burn fewer calories doing the same activity as the person who always weighs 135. The research that I've read indicates that this is not a temporary change.

So, the person who loses weight and then thinks that he or she can eat like their always slim friend will often start gaining weight. To fight that the person has to continue to restrict calories and has to engage in significant exercise.

And, research is showing that the body even then fights back. The person who has lost weight may find appetite increases as the body tries to get you to go back to where you were.

So to keep weight off you have to first lose the weight, but then you have to battle increased hunger, and may find that you have to exercise an hour a day and have to continue eating the same calories that you were eating to lose weight (due to slower metabolism). If you aren't really, really committed to it, this can be very difficult.

I do think that genetics plays a huge factor in this as well. Although, it isn't necessarily everything. I wasn't really overweight as a child. As a late teenager I wanted to lose 5 or 10 pounds at time but I was within a healthy weight range. Then, as an adult, I went up, then down, then up, then down. About 20 years ago I became a lifetime member of WW losing from 167 pounds down to 119 pounds. I couldn't maintain it. I ended up gaining it all back, then gained weight while pregnant and have been trying to lose it ever since (my son is 17 now...). At some point, I was sure that I just had bad genetics. I was adopted so I didn't really know but assumed my genetic weight lottery was bad.

But, about 14 years ago after a long search, I found my birthmother. To my total shock I found that she was 5'1" and struggles to keep above 100 pounds and has never had a weight problem. I guess it is possible I have bad genetics on the paternal side (my search was not successful on that side) but she did say that when she knew my birth father he was of normal weight. So, I fortunately (?) don't have genetics to blame....

A great blog that talks a lot about weight loss maintenance is below (it is WW oriented but really has a lot that would apply to anyone losing weight and trying to maintain).

GoingSkiing | My Not So Humble Opinions on All Things Weighty
Everything you say squares with what I have read, except your statement that you personally don't have genetics to blame. You may. Just because your parents were not heavy doesn't mean that your genetics didn't participate in programming you to be overweight.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:21 PM   #60
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Good to hear from you Martha!
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