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Old 04-29-2008, 08:53 PM   #41
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DW's family has a lot of "issues" and since blood is thicker than water (whatever than means!) we have done a lot to support certain members of the family that got in some serious financial trouble with no way out. One is disabled, divorced, no alimony, no savings and is living with her sister's family (thank God we don't live close by!). We gave her DW's old car, paid her medical bills, paid off her debt so the creditors would not take her to court and I got her on Calif. assistence and Soc. Sec. Disability. We even had her on our cell phone service for a year until she lost the phone we gave her.

At some point you have to say...NO! We are at that point. If she were to do more for herself we might be more willing to help.
Steve, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You are far more generous and understanding than I would have been in such circumstances.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:37 PM   #42
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I have to admit one of my biggest fears is the want/need/expectation of my children for money after they are adults. I figure that would be the largest detriment to FIRE, unless the stock market tanks too.
Well, *need* would be one thing, but 'want' and 'expectations'? :confused:

I thought you said 'after they are adults'? Their 'want's and 'expectations' should be provided by themselves.

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Old 04-29-2008, 11:07 PM   #43
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Well, *need* would be one thing, but 'want' and 'expectations'? :confused:

I thought you said 'after they are adults'? Their 'want's and 'expectations' should be provided by themselves.

-ERD50

I guess I should say they want or expect me to keep supporting them. I actually had a co-worker tell me that she expected her father to support her until she was married off (who knows how long that could be).
While I wouldn't kick the kids out of the house at 18, if they are working and not going to college, *I* would expect some rent
There was a post in another thread about someone's mother still supporting her two sons. They were in their late 30's early 40's. That is what I don't want.
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:46 PM   #44
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I actually had a co-worker tell me that she expected her father to support her until she was married off
Hmm I wonder how many goats will be in the dowry?
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:08 AM   #45
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While I wouldn't kick the kids out of the house at 18, if they are working and not going to college, *I* would expect some rent
That's how it was when my siblings and I were growing up. It was go to college and get a part time job, or if not going to college then get a fulltime job. In either case, if we planned on living at home, we were charged room & board and were expected to do household chores as well.

We NEVER expected the folks to support us after HS.......of course that was ingrained in us from about our HS freshman year onward, so we knew what the road ahead looked like for us. In fact all three of us had jobs by age 16......or before.
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Old 04-30-2008, 08:51 AM   #46
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I guess I should say they want or expect me to keep supporting them.
Apparently children are influenced more by their peers than their parents. However, as you are the person from whom that future largesse would presumably be flowing, I would think that you will have lots of opportunity to manage their expectations from a relatively early age.
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:39 AM   #47
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I guess I should say they want or expect me to keep supporting them. I actually had a co-worker tell me that she expected her father to support her until she was married off (who knows how long that could be).
Ok... I just had to comment on this. I am still a fairly young single man. It has just blown me away how many women I have dated in their late 20's, early 30's that are still being supported financially in part, or in whole by their parents. Needless to say, when I run accross people like that, it screams "irresponsibility" to me very loudly. As I am fond of telling my friends, "One day I would love to have a little girl, but no way do I want to marry one!"
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:17 AM   #48
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Fair enough. However, statistically more young adult males reside with their parents than do young adult females. See for example Adult Children Moving Back Home: Don't Let "Boomerang Kids" Derail Your Goals, which says: "Census figures show that 56 percent of men and 43 percent of women ages 18 to 24 today live with one or both parents".
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:24 AM   #49
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In debt up to my eyeballs...

I almost fell out of my seat on that one. Too funny.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:24 AM   #50
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I think the reasons an adult working full-time and living with their parents matter also, though. I mean, some legitimately help the parents out in some regard (with younger siblings or household responsibilities) or it is ingrained in their culture that family lives together.

That said, if I were to meet a man who showed interest in me and I learned that his parents were either partially funding his lifestyle or he was living at home without paying rent, I would be very wary.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:10 PM   #51
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I think at some point you make choice, to make your own way or constantly hope for the genorosity of others. I'm not talking about folks that CAN'T do anything about it, that's a small majority of all folks.

Something happens to you in life that's the "DUH" moment, unfortunately for so many, they don't know it's the DUH moment, until its too late.........
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:41 PM   #52
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Ok... I just had to comment on this. I am still a fairly young single man. It has just blown me away how many women I have dated in their late 20's, early 30's that are still being supported financially in part, or in whole by their parents. Needless to say, when I run accross people like that, it screams "irresponsibility" to me very loudly. As I am fond of telling my friends, "One day I would love to have a little girl, but no way do I want to marry one!"

I have a freind with a ten year old daughter (only child) whose every whim he indulges. He admits he spoils her for the express purpose of making sure she'll only be happy marrying someone who has the means to support her in the lavish lifestyle to which her father has accustomed her.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:54 PM   #53
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my brother can afford his trap but i'm seriously afraid it is going to kill him. just spoke to him the other day about this. it took me three days to get him on the phone. we used to have lunch together weekly but he hasn't been able to break away for almost two months already.

he's way overweight (used to be a very athletic guy), he's becoming very short tempered, he's catching colds more easily and now he has what he thinks is a pulled hamstring; but i think, based on his description, it is a spinal problem. we don't have family history of heart problems but i seriously worry about his.

his wife called me the other day that the ranch they bought (not to live on, just to keep the horses) is jeopardizing her marriage. after calming her down and telling her that her kid can survive even not having her own pony (as if the freaking horse couldn't just be boarded on someone else's ranch--cripes, how come i never got my own pony!), i later had a conversation with my brother who would like to retire but he can't get his family to cooperate.

trapped by his own good intentions, he'll wind up with much more money than me only he won't be around to spend it.
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:42 PM   #54
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He admits he spoils her for the express purpose of making sure she'll only be happy marrying someone who has the means to support her in the lavish lifestyle to which her father has accustomed her.
I don't understand why a father would do something so vindictive to his child. :confused:

It would be less viscious for him to deliberately break both her legs so badly that she will never again be able to walk (better to be crippled physically than psychologically).
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Old 04-30-2008, 03:01 PM   #55
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Or to believe that she's really any happier now or will be in the future.
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Old 04-30-2008, 03:18 PM   #56
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One of my sisters must be in money problems since I got a check out of the blue from my parents. They always send out money equally.
My parents kind of do this, but not to the penny. They gave me $20,000 for grad school and now every major occasion that passes they give my sister and her family a $1,000 check. Who knows if they are keeping track, but I am sure one day they will feel they have "settled things"...
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Old 04-30-2008, 04:08 PM   #57
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I used to know plenty of people in the navy who spent their entire paycheques on a combination of booze, cars, clothes and expensive stereos.
I see this day in and day out. And it's just as true no matter how high you climb, apparently. There was one guy I met who joined the same time I did, went to the same Navy school and he was fanatical about LBYM. His mother was a millionaire but wouldn't give him anything, so he was adamant about saving everything he could to retire early.

Some of these stories are sad, and considering the lifestyle habits of most of my immediate and extended family, I have to ask what I would do if asked to help someone out who refused to help themselves. I think there would be plenty of ways to help without handing over a dime, depending on the situation, but if something became so bad that I was convinced lending money was the answer, it would have to come with a beating, either physically or verbally. Seems to be the only way some people will change their habits.
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Old 04-30-2008, 04:42 PM   #58
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[C]considering the lifestyle habits of most of my immediate and extended family, I have to ask what I would do if asked to help someone out who refused to help themselves. I think there would be plenty of ways to help without handing over a dime, depending on the situation, but if something became so bad that I was convinced lending money was the answer, it would have to come with a beating, either physically or verbally. Seems to be the only way some people will change their habits.
I hope this scenario never arises, so you don't have to deal with it.

If I does, here are a couple of suggestions, which I hope are helpful and which of course you are entirely free to reject if you wish:

(1) Never lend money to family (or friends). You'll never get it back, and the non-repayment will become a festering sore that will kill the relationship.

If you want to help out financially, give the money as an unconditional gift.

(2) I agree that many people need "a beating" before they learn from their mistakes. However, the best "beating" would be the experience of having to deal with their situation without being picked up by you or anyone else.

If you nevertheless decide to extend a helping hand, do so without harsh words or lectures, which will only cause resentment and will not be listened to anyway (cf. How to Win Friends and Influence People principle 1: don't criticize, condemn or complain).
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Old 04-30-2008, 04:59 PM   #59
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I wouldn't think that'd be fair, would it? I don't think anyone wouldn't be resentful of being put in a position to bail someone out solely because of their own faults, but then to hand the money over and just pat them on the hand and say "there, there, in my mind I'm giving you a paper cut with every dollar I'm handing over, but I don't want to hurt your feelings so I'll just say here's hoping everything turns out all right?"

No. The beatings will commence until my moral improves.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:31 PM   #60
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What I'm trying to say is that if you want to help someone with money (which I personally wouldn't do if I thought they were responsible for their own misfortune), don't have any expectations of gratitude or lessons being learned: you'll only be disappointed. Much better to write the money off, and if nice things do happen, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

If you don't really care about the future of the relationship, I would think long and hard about why you're handing any money over in the first place.

P.S. When I was in the navy, the saying was "all leave is cancelled until morale improves".
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