Trapped By Her Lifestyle

[FinanceDude]

I think at some point you make choice, to make your own way or constantly hope for the genorosity of others. I'm not talking about folks that CAN'T do anything about it, that's a small majority of all folks.

Something happens to you in life that's the "DUH" moment, unfortunately for so many, they don't know it's the DUH moment, until its too late.........

 

[beldar3]

Ok... I just had to comment on this. I am still a fairly young single man. It has just blown me away how many women I have dated in their late 20's, early 30's that are still being supported financially in part, or in whole by their parents. Needless to say, when I run accross people like that, it screams "irresponsibility" to me very loudly. As I am fond of telling my friends, "One day I would love to have a little girl, but no way do I want to marry one!"

I have a freind with a ten year old daughter (only child) whose every whim he indulges. He admits he spoils her for the express purpose of making sure she'll only be happy marrying someone who has the means to support her in the lavish lifestyle to which her father has accustomed her.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

my brother can afford his trap but i'm seriously afraid it is going to kill him. just spoke to him the other day about this. it took me three days to get him on the phone. we used to have lunch together weekly but he hasn't been able to break away for almost two months already.

he's way overweight (used to be a very athletic guy), he's becoming very short tempered, he's catching colds more easily and now he has what he thinks is a pulled hamstring; but i think, based on his description, it is a spinal problem. we don't have family history of heart problems but i seriously worry about his.

his wife called me the other day that the ranch they bought (not to live on, just to keep the horses) is jeopardizing her marriage. after calming her down and telling her that her kid can survive even not having her own pony (as if the freaking horse couldn't just be boarded on someone else's ranch--cripes, how come i never got my own pony!), i later had a conversation with my brother who would like to retire but he can't get his family to cooperate.

trapped by his own good intentions, he'll wind up with much more money than me only he won't be around to spend it.

 

[Milton]

He admits he spoils her for the express purpose of making sure she'll only be happy marrying someone who has the means to support her in the lavish lifestyle to which her father has accustomed her.

I don't understand why a father would do something so vindictive to his child.

It would be less viscious for him to deliberately break both her legs so badly that she will never again be able to walk (better to be crippled physically than psychologically).

 

[tuixiu]

Or to believe that she's really any happier now or will be in the future.

 

[podey]

One of my sisters must be in money problems since I got a check out of the blue from my parents. They always send out money equally.

My parents kind of do this, but not to the penny. They gave me $20,000 for grad school and now every major occasion that passes they give my sister and her family a $1,000 check. Who knows if they are keeping track, but I am sure one day they will feel they have "settled things"...

 

[RetiredGypsy]

I used to know plenty of people in the navy who spent their entire paycheques on a combination of booze, cars, clothes and expensive stereos.

I see this day in and day out. And it's just as true no matter how high you climb, apparently. There was one guy I met who joined the same time I did, went to the same Navy school and he was fanatical about LBYM. His mother was a millionaire but wouldn't give him anything, so he was adamant about saving everything he could to retire early.

Some of these stories are sad, and considering the lifestyle habits of most of my immediate and extended family, I have to ask what I would do if asked to help someone out who refused to help themselves. I think there would be plenty of ways to help without handing over a dime, depending on the situation, but if something became so bad that I was convinced lending money was the answer, it would have to come with a beating, either physically or verbally. Seems to be the only way some people will change their habits.

 

[Milton]

[C]considering the lifestyle habits of most of my immediate and extended family, I have to ask what I would do if asked to help someone out who refused to help themselves. I think there would be plenty of ways to help without handing over a dime, depending on the situation, but if something became so bad that I was convinced lending money was the answer, it would have to come with a beating, either physically or verbally. Seems to be the only way some people will change their habits.

I hope this scenario never arises, so you don't have to deal with it.

If I does, here are a couple of suggestions, which I hope are helpful and which of course you are entirely free to reject if you wish:

(1) Never lend money to family (or friends). You'll never get it back, and the non-repayment will become a festering sore that will kill the relationship.

If you want to help out financially, give the money as an unconditional gift.

(2) I agree that many people need "a beating" before they learn from their mistakes. However, the best "beating" would be the experience of having to deal with their situation without being picked up by you or anyone else.

If you nevertheless decide to extend a helping hand, do so without harsh words or lectures, which will only cause resentment and will not be listened to anyway (cf. How to Win Friends and Influence People principle 1: don't criticize, condemn or complain).

 

[RetiredGypsy]

I wouldn't think that'd be fair, would it? I don't think anyone wouldn't be resentful of being put in a position to bail someone out solely because of their own faults, but then to hand the money over and just pat them on the hand and say "there, there, in my mind I'm giving you a paper cut with every dollar I'm handing over, but I don't want to hurt your feelings so I'll just say here's hoping everything turns out all right?"

No. The beatings will commence until my moral improves.

 

[Milton]

What I'm trying to say is that if you want to help someone with money (which I personally wouldn't do if I thought they were responsible for their own misfortune), don't have any expectations of gratitude or lessons being learned: you'll only be disappointed. Much better to write the money off, and if nice things do happen, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

If you don't really care about the future of the relationship, I would think long and hard about why you're handing any money over in the first place.

P.S. When I was in the navy, the saying was "all leave is cancelled until morale improves".

 

[RetiredGypsy]

I hope that's a saying you didn't hear often!

I understand where you're coming from. It's horrible to have to be put through what you want to do, what you're conscience is telling you the right thing to do is, what the real right thing to do really is, and what you think the consequences of each one are.

I lie now and tell everyone I'm broke. Maybe if I keep it up for the next 30 years they'll find easier fish to bait.

 

[citrine]

My parents give financial aid to my brother....even though he is 30 and engaged to be married.
I refuse to associate with them....much less take their money.
As for friends....unless I can afford to give them the cash, I don't get involved in the lending business.

 

[RetiredGypsy]

I dunno, get a couple partners named Guido and Chip "bust yer knees" McGruff, and you could do well in the lending business. Or should I say the collecting business?

 

[Orchidflower]

FYI and in case some of you aren't aware of this trick: Many sales managers "encourage" their staff to keep up with the Jones' and buy expensive clothing ("You need to impress") and cars and other things that cost a great deal.
When I started out the manager I had told us we needed Cross pens; and I bought one like everyone else, because I was young, inexperienced and stupid (it was Bic all the way after that).
Why? Because they know if you are up to your whazoo in debt, you will HAVE to work harder. Many people get into sales because you work alone, can take days off if you get good enough--although that's not the way top performers do it--and, many times, have a big ego and think you "deserve" the best.
Anyway, it works often, and the dummies go out and spend, spend, spend. It's a game for suckers run by their "helpful" managers, and anyone who really believes that crapola is in for a horrible surprise. But they do...amazing, eh?

 

[Bestwifeever]

Actually I think most people live below their means--some people choose to do it real early (and they then have a nice nest egg later), and some people choose to do it later (those who have lived above their means early and have less later). I don't feel that sorry for people who choose the latter. I save that for the people who have been dealt bad hands in life through no choice of their own.

 

[Milton]

Many sales managers "encourage" their staff to keep up with the Jones' and buy expensive clothing ("You need to impress") and cars and other things that cost a great deal.... Why? Because they know if you are up to your whazoo in debt, you will HAVE to work harder.

According to the book Shark Tank, the late, unlamented law firm Finley, Kumble engaged in similar ploys with their associates.

 

[megacorp-firee]

According to the book Shark Tank, the late, unlamented law firm Finley, Kumble engaged in similar ploys with their associates.

I never played those games when I was a manager, however, I knew when someone
i) got married
ii) had a new baby
iii) bought a house
iv) bought a new luxury car
v) took yearly big vacations
vi) bragged about 'what they had' a lot
... they would be highly motivated to keep their j*b.

 

[Milton]

Self-inflicted wounds (except for a - good - marriage, which can add to one's net worth and quality of life).

 

[Dog]

Interesting comments. My co-worker (and friend) received lots of financial support from her retired father (even though she was easily making 6 figures). He helped with the down payment on her high-end town home, with her high-end SUV and a couple years later when she upgraded to a much bigger home (as well as a surgery for her dog). He passed away 2 years ago and it turns out that he had taken out home equity loans to give her the money. It turns out that dad didn't have quite the retirement nest egg that the family thought (her mother was not involved in any of the finances). Now her mom continually complains about the money situation and makes her feel guilty.

 

[youbet]

I'm listed as executor of her estate. Some day there's going to be an unpleasant conversation with my siblings. But my approach is to lay out all assets, split it three ways, and move on. No prolonged discussions. Hopefully it works out and if not, well, that'll be a bummer.

Actually, I think you'll find out that as executor of your mom's estate, you'll distribute any assets per her final wishes and not by any approach of your own. Perhaps those will be one in the same. But, if different, her wishes prevail.

 

[youbet]

I used to know plenty of people in the navy who spent their entire paycheques on a combination of booze, cars, clothes and expensive stereos.

Gee Milton, I'm much older than you otherwise I'd think I was one of the folks you knew doing all that spending! Then I went on to break many of your other rules.....kids, house, wife..... the whole catastrophe. Somehow I got to FIRE.

Of course, it took me a long time and you'll probably make it by 35 or 40 yo. We just all have to live our own lives I guess.

Edited to add: Milton...... just re-read your post and I misspoke slightly. I spent big on booze, cars and electronics, but not clothes.

 

[Milton]

Oh, I don't mean to suggest that my way is The One True Path to FIRE. As you say, everyone is free to make their own choices. And I suppose the more people that chain themselves to their jobs by making stupid decisions, the better for me as a capitalist.

As I've said before, I do think that sacrifices are required to arrive at FIRE. After all, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Some people are willing to make less sacrifices than others; which is fine, it just takes longer. Some people aren't prepared to make any sacrifices at all; which is also fine, but they will never reach financial independence.

 

[youbet]

And I suppose the more people that chain themselves to their jobs by making stupid decisions, the better for me as a capitalist.

The way I looked at it was that earning a living doing something, say a "job," you felt negatively about, something you felt chained to, was the truly stupid decision.

 

[CuppaJoe]

....kids, house, wife..... the whole catastrophe. Somehow I got to FIRE.

"Zorba the Greek"? Love that line, "the whole (or full) catastrophe." Fluffy likes it, too.

 

[Milton]

There is no question in my mind that if you have a job that you truly enjoy and that brings you fulfilment, early retirement is unnecessary (and would probably be a huge mistake).

But even those lucky few would be advised to try to become financially independent. Changes occur and bad things happen outside of our control. And even if one has excellent 'job security', many people find that what is interesting and stimulating now becomes rather stale and boring 20 years later.