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Old 07-02-2007, 08:30 AM   #41
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All the replies seem to be pretty consistent with what you've already decided. Now you just have to wait for the inevitable train wreck to happen.
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:14 AM   #42
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"I not only take care of her financial planning, I take care of managing her checkbook, her EF and pretty much anything else financial (like I said before she has no clue)."

OK... so you handle ALL things financial for her and she's going to run out of money. And when she does, she will then agree that you were correct and blameless all along. And that she was an idiot all along. Uh-huh.

This, of course, is as opposed to her being talked into suing you for putting her into such straights. But that won't happen... because she wuuuuvs you soooo much, and besides it's "just not right".

Man I would back out of where you are like it's a snake pit. I would do it with a letter to her that lists everything you've said here. Not for her but for the record. I would not allow myself to be within MILES and YEARS of her final financial "adjustment" when it happens. And I DAMN sure would not be the one with her checkbook on my desk at that moment. You don't have to LOSE a lawsuit to be broken by it. Let her pay a professional to be the bad guy and get yourself out of it. You are too close and seeing firsthand why it's a mistake to do business with family.
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:33 AM   #43
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I would back of entirely, no reason she can't write her own checks and balance her own checkbook. As long as you do things you are responsible in some way, if she takes it over she may feel the spending more.
She is only 64 not old yet she can learn to take care of herself. Mom is doing it at 80, she can spend all she likes then if she is out of money she can reverse mortgage her house or move to some place cheaper.
I agree. I would be worried that by managing her financial affairs now you might be on the hook later when the inevitable happens. I'd write her a letter explaining your concerns, then sit down with her and turn over her check book, etc. What else can you do??
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:24 PM   #44
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This, of course, is as opposed to her being talked into suing you for putting her into such straights.
Man I would back out of where you are like it's a snake pit. I would do it with a letter to her that lists everything you've said here. Not for her but for the record. I would not allow myself to be within MILES and YEARS of her final financial "adjustment" when it happens. And I DAMN sure would not be the one with her checkbook on my desk at that moment. You don't have to LOSE a lawsuit to be broken by it. Let her pay a professional to be the bad guy and get yourself out of it. You are too close and seeing firsthand why it's a mistake to do business with family.
Look, I don't write checks on her behalf (and I certainly don't have her checkbook), she makes her own transactions, writes her own checks, makes her own decisions as to what she spends her money on and I never, never sign anything in her place. Everything I propose in terms of investments, we discuss first, I make sure she understands it and then if she agrees she takes care of buying/selling it herself. I never represented myself as a financial professional, I never entered any written or verbal agreement with her, I never made any promises, I never profited from my own advice to her, and my name or signature never appears anywhere on her financial paperwork. So as far as I am concerned she's gonna have a hell of a time proving I am responsible for her situation if she goes bankrupt... of course if she still tried to sue me (and therefore my wife) then it is clear that she will probably finish her lonely days in a God forsaken nursing home sponsored by Medicaid...
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:44 PM   #45
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Oops. I misread the thread and got the impression that you were more involved in her day to day financial doings. Sorry about that.

Still think you're in a "no win" situation here and have little recourse but to say you've tried, but now have to bite your tongue.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:49 PM   #46
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Uh... ok. My bad. Then you should continue to do just what you're doing. Preach to her so she can ignore you.

Am I telling you what you want to hear yet?
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:25 PM   #47
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Achiever and Joss,

I think that if you read some of my previous posts you will see that I have no intention to keep preaching to her. I've tried, I've failed, Let's move on. Whatever situation she ends up finding herself in, she'll have to deal with on her own. I think most people on this board agree that I am wasting my time with her. And there is nothing I hate more than wasting time...
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:33 PM   #48
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I don't think you wasted too much time up to this point though. If you hadn't made an effort, you wouldn't have known whether you could've helped prevent the inevitable. And you also know where things stand and can prepare youself for it.

And who knows, maybe she'll realize it herself earlier than she would've without your input.

Sounds like you did everything you could.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:40 PM   #49
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Could this be a case for getting her to cash everything in and buy a single premium annuity?
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:43 PM   #50
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Achiever and Joss,

I think that if you read some of my previous posts you will see that I have no intention to keep preaching to her. I've tried, I've failed, Let's move on. Whatever situation she ends up finding herself in, she'll have to deal with on her own. I think most people on this board agree that I am wasting my time with her. And there is nothing I hate more than wasting time...

Yup...Got it, moving on.
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Old 07-02-2007, 04:15 PM   #51
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Achiever and Joss,

I think that if you read some of my previous posts you will see that I have no intention to keep preaching to her. I've tried, I've failed, Let's move on. Whatever situation she ends up finding herself in, she'll have to deal with on her own. I think most people on this board agree that I am wasting my time with her. And there is nothing I hate more than wasting time...
Not to mention a potential lawsuit she'll slap you with if you don't "rescue her". Since she doesn't get along all that well with HER DAUGHTER, you're on an island, and the tide is coming in...........

You guys may think I'm joking, but I've seen it happen among family members..........
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:09 PM   #52
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Most LTC policies have a the insured list a person to contact in case the premium isn't paid. Find out if that section is 'up to date'. Have your wife listed as that secondary person. Were I you if I received such a notice I would first follow up with MIL and if all fails pay it yourself.
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Old 07-03-2007, 01:53 PM   #53
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Realistically, you might as well decide whether you feel like writing checks or which room she'll be staying in. At the end of the day, family is family and if the MIL runs out of cash, you'll be taking care of the results.
Speak for yourself.

I have a sister who is a good person and all that, but spends her money as fast as it comes in, takes a lot of time off, and generally enjoys life to the fullest, regardless of the future. I don't have any intention of offering financial assistance later on ... that is simply not the purpose of my savings and investments.

At the end of the day, competent adults are responsible for their own decisions and if family members run out of cash, they will be stuck with the results.
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:20 PM   #54
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FIREdreamer,

I think you've gotten a reasonable consensus of the forum that you are making a mistake continuing to be the "financial advisor" to your MIL when she ignores your suggestions.

I'm personally amazed that you are so concerned when your DW "isn't close to her mother." Is her maiden name, perhaps, Robinson?

You are setting yourself up for problems. They my be legal as FinanceDude alluded to or you my become her emotional whipping boy as she pleads for the cash you let her squander. Why in the name of anyone are you setting yourself up to be in that position. :confused:

If you love being an ignored preacher for "the way" have fun. When you don't have a receptive pupil, it's best to move on. If my wife didn't care a flip for her mother, I'd be ER'd and living 3 states away. What's your problem? :confused:

It's time to move on.....

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Old 07-03-2007, 09:13 PM   #55
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I'm personally amazed that you are so concerned when your DW "isn't close to her mother." Is her maiden name, perhaps, Robinson?[
sick...

The real reason why I tried to help her with her finances was not so much charity than it was fear of her squandering her savings in no time and then wanting to move in with us and live off of us...

As I said before I am not concerned with her suing me (read post #44).
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:56 AM   #56
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sick...
Thank you.

The basic question remains. Why are you still worrying about "her money" when she has rejected your advice on spending? If DW has no intention of "saving her," why are you continuing to hang in there. You have no real skin in the game if you walk away.

No one has said you weren't doing the right thing in trying to get her to control her spending but you can't make her change. She's a spendaholic and will have to hit her own personal bottom before she is ready. If you hang around giving "investment advice," you are one step away from being an enabler.
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:32 AM   #57
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The basic question remains. Why are you still worrying about "her money" when she has rejected your advice on spending? If DW has no intention of "saving her," why are you continuing to hang in there. You have no real skin in the game if you walk away.
It all started after the divorce. My MIL and wife are both clueless when it comes to money and so it seemed natural for me to step in at that point to help my MIL sort out her post-divorce financial mayheim (my wife is my MIL's only family). At this point she was extremely worried about her financial situation and asked me to come up with a savings plan which would allow her to secure her own retirement ("I don't want to be a burden on you guys" she said...). So I did come up with a plan which would ensure she could continue taking care of herself in the future without relying on us financially. She also wanted me to keep monitoring the situation to make sure she kept making progress towards her goal.
Well in the first 3 months she was following my advice and it looked like she was learning something and was commited to build up a nice retirement cushion for herself so everything was OK. But then she started slowly drifting away from the budget we worked out for her. At our first 6 month review session, I realized that she was now spending a lot more than what she was supposed to. Any attempt to show her that she was derailing her own retirement plans by overspending failed. At that point I realized that now that the shock of the divorce was fading away, she was reverting back to her former self (no budget, spend spend spend until the checking account is empty)...
When I went home that night I had a talk with my wife. For the first time we talked about what she was intending to do with her mom when the day of reckoning finally arrived. I thought up to that point that she would say something like "well, then I would like her to move in with us so that we can take care of her", because that's probably what I would have said. But to my surprise she said that she would not step in because of her mom's irresponsible behavior.
So at that point I felt like it was a waste of time for me to continue supervising my MIL's finances since neither my wife nor my MIL seemed concerned about the possibility of my MIL going bankrupt. But I felt a bit uneasy to just give up on her and watch the train wreck slowly when I knew it did not have to be that way (and don't forget that after all she is still family and it is difficult to just give up entirely on family members, at least for me it is)... Hence my original post... Now it is clear that I should step aside and let her make her own choices.
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:29 PM   #58
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I think one way, maybe the only way, to save her is to have the cash deposited into a retirement account immediately after she receives the alimony check. Then she "can't" spend it all.

If she spends the checking account down to zero every month, then the retirement contribution has already been made.

Anyway, I read the whole thread. Good luck.

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Old 07-05-2007, 10:58 PM   #59
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I think one way, maybe the only way, to save her is to have the cash deposited into a retirement account immediately after she receives the alimony check. Then she "can't" spend it all.
CCdaCE,

That's exactly what I have her do right now. She gets her alimony payment by direct deposit on her checking account on the first of the month, and 2-3 days later a set amount of money is automatically transferred to her retirement accounts at VG. But there is a weakness in the system: she can always log on to VG's website to cancel an upcoming transfer or to lower the amount to be transferred if she plans on spending more during the upcoming month. There is nothing I can do about that. She started saving about $1800 a month, we are now at $1000, and she is talking about lowering it to just $500 a month (according to my calculation she would need to save about $1700 a month to be able to keep paying her "basic" expenses in 10 years).
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Well, you tried.
Old 07-06-2007, 07:57 AM   #60
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Well, you tried.

Well, you tried....

Can't do much more than go the direct transfer route, IMO.

-CC
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