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Old 03-16-2011, 12:27 AM   #81
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Sometimes spending "more" isn't dictated by wanting a bunch of small things but rather because one component of a lifestyle is expensive.
Once we know what answer we want to get, it is easy to interpret life and our own feelings to give us that answer. We only have to be very strongly committed to that answer for this magic to work.

Ha
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:36 AM   #82
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Once we know what answer we want to get, it is easy to interpret life and out own feelings to give us that answer. We only have to be very strongly committed to that answer for this magic to work.

Ha
OK, you lost me this time. Give that to me in words a simple, blue collar guy can understand........

What I was trying to express was my feeling that spending "more" might not be driven by a lust to own lotsa "stuff," but rather by some single circumstance. For example, needing to live in a higher cost area leads to higher spending even if the person is not a "spender" and collector of stuff, toys, do-dads and rice cookers.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:13 AM   #83
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OK, you lost me this time. Give that to me in words a simple, blue collar guy can understand........

What I was trying to express was my feeling that spending "more" might not be driven by a lust to own lotsa "stuff," but rather by some single circumstance. For example, needing to live in a higher cost area leads to higher spending even if the person is not a "spender" and collector of stuff, toys, do-dads and rice cookers.
Agree completely. Like you say, consumer crap is so cheap today that it is almost never what is standing between us and a better material life. It is that house with its own dock, better care for a handicapped spouse or child or parent, even a top grade education or a close in home that is still in an attractive, safe neighborhood. Maybe the ability to have the mechanic send someone over to pick up your car at work at your house, rather than somehow getting it over to them and finding your way home or to work. Maybe buying your way into a situation in a completely different country that seems less annoying.

Ha
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:27 AM   #84
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Agree. The problem is that we all have different lifestyles. Hence I do not believe there is a single answer to your question.
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another way of thinking about what is rich is how much money do you need to have a qualitatively different lifestyle?
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:08 AM   #85
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I saw a poll once done across all income classes. They asked "How much more would be the minimum needed to live The Good Life".

The answer, surprisingly enough, was that each person believed that they needed about 40% more minimum to. live well. And that was for pretty much all of the groups regardless of income.

Hedonic treadmill defined.
Funny. If someone asked me this question my response would not directly be about money. I could live the good life right now if I knew healthcare was taken care of.
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:12 AM   #86
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Agree completely. Like you say, consumer crap is so cheap today that it is almost never what is standing between us and a better material life. It is that house with its own dock, better care for a handicapped spouse or child or parent, even a top grade education or a close in home that is still in an attractive, safe neighborhood. Maybe the ability to have the mechanic send someone over to pick up your car at work at your house, rather than somehow getting it over to them and finding your way home or to work. Maybe buying your way into a situation in a completely different country that seems less annoying.

Ha
Very astute, Ha. I could care less about upgrading my 8YO station wagon or wearing a fancy watch, but if I had not had the considerable financial wherewithal to give my two old dogs the very best in vet care over the last couple of years I would have been in considerable distress.

Different strokes.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:31 PM   #87
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Agree completely. Like you say, consumer crap is so cheap today that it is almost never what is standing between us and a better material life. It is that house with its own dock, better care for a handicapped spouse or child or parent, even a top grade education or a close in home that is still in an attractive, safe neighborhood. Maybe the ability to have the mechanic send someone over to pick up your car at work at your house, rather than somehow getting it over to them and finding your way home or to work. Maybe buying your way into a situation in a completely different country that seems less annoying.

Ha
Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, exactly.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:52 PM   #88
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Rich people have servants.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:10 PM   #89
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Rich people have servants.
I once went to a brunch at a friends girlfriends house high up in the beverly hills. Having servants in a private home to take your plate away was very otherworldly for me.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:12 AM   #90
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Rich people spend their money to obtain time-----the "not rich" spend their time to obtain money.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:11 AM   #91
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Rich people have servants.


Hmmmm... couldn't find that anywhere in the tax code. Maybe I missed it?
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:02 PM   #92
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Rich people have servants.
Now I know I'm rich - my parents were servants at one point early (Depression) in their lives.

heh heh heh -
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:31 AM   #93
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Sometimes spending "more" isn't dictated by wanting a bunch of small things but rather because one component of a lifestyle is expensive. For example, we have friends building a new home in northern Wisconsin. They love to fish, boat and kayak and would have preferred to have a home on a large lake. But lake lots and taxes/maintenance on lake homes are very expensive up there and would have easily added $15k to their annual expenses. (That's a lot of rice cookers every year.) So they are building on a 3 acre wooded lot instead to stay within their SWR.

They're happy with what they're doing but I'm not sure it's The Good Life. He confided in me recently that he'd sure like to be building on the lake.......

I think that sometimes the thrill of LBYMing as an end in itself can wear thin in retirement. While DW and I are certainly frugal livers (or we wouldn't be FIRE'd), I admit that we'd rather go on a camping trip than sit at home relishing the fact that we didn't spend the money. the act of not spending just doesn't generate the thrill for us that it used to when we were accumulating in order to FIRE.

When we were accumulating, friends might invite us to join them for dinner at a restaurant we like and we'd say no thanks. We'd put the $50 we saved into the FIRE account and actually get goose bumps over our good fortune of being $50 closer to FIRE. Now if friends call and invite us to join them for dinner and we don't go because the budget is tight that month and we don't feel we should spend the $50, I'm truly disappointed. Time passes and things change....... DW has been retired 8 yrs. Almost 5 yrs for me.
Very good point about LBYM in retirement. Seems to me that after many years of LBYM many people start to confuse the journey with the destination. Once retired our spending habits might become hard wired and the expected "fun" of being able to afford some luxury in our lives during retirement doesn't manifest itself. Wasn't a problem with us though.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:13 AM   #94
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Why does anyone still wear a watch when we all carry cell phones everywhere that serve the same purpose?


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Very astute, Ha. I could care less about upgrading my 8YO station wagon or wearing a fancy watch, but if I had not had the considerable financial wherewithal to give my two old dogs the very best in vet care over the last couple of years I would have been in considerable distress.

Different strokes.
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:34 PM   #95
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Why does anyone still wear a watch when we all carry cell phones everywhere that serve the same purpose?
I'll tell you why I do. I can see it in bright sun; the battery rarely goes dead; I can see it while I am talking to someone; I don't have to unlock any keys to see the time; and I don't have to reach into my pocket to know what time it is.

To me, this is just one more of those personal preference issues.

Ha
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:44 PM   #96
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I'll tell you why I do. I can see it in bright sun; the battery rarely goes dead; I can see it while I am talking to someone; I don't have to unlock any keys to see the time; and I don't have to reach into my pocket to know what time it is.

To me, this is just one more of those personal preference issues.

Ha
+1 Technophiles often have inflated views of the utility of their gizmos. Of course, watches were cutting edge a while back too
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:33 PM   #97
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Why does anyone still wear a watch when we all carry cell phones everywhere that serve the same purpose?
Because a fine watch is a working piece of art.
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:39 PM   #98
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Why does anyone still wear a watch when we all carry cell phones everywhere that serve the same purpose?
I consider watches,nowdays, to be a status symbol with no other purpose. I think they are worthless as I have no interest in showing off my status. I wouldn't spend $5 on a wristwatch let alone the hundreds or even thousands that some people spend. Sometimes these aren't even people who have a lot of money. Such a waste.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:31 PM   #99
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Very good point about LBYM in retirement. Seems to me that after many years of LBYM many people start to confuse the journey with the destination. Once retired our spending habits might become hard wired and the expected "fun" of being able to afford some luxury in our lives during retirement doesn't manifest itself. Wasn't a problem with us though.
We have good friends who inherited an Italian show business from his parents. We were talking to them about other friends who were bought out of his company for $10 million. He has all the toys: 58 foot yacht, 38 foot RV, a Harley, home in West Vancouver, condo in PV MX where we met him. She said that $10 million is not enough to sustain that lifestyle! It was then that we knew we were out-classed!

But we have a great life and we spend $80k a year.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:05 AM   #100
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I consider watches,nowdays, to be a status symbol with no other purpose. I think they are worthless as I have no interest in showing off my status. I wouldn't spend $5 on a wristwatch let alone the hundreds or even thousands that some people spend. Sometimes these aren't even people who have a lot of money. Such a waste.
Whilst you may consider watches to be a 'status symbol', I just wear one because I always have. Despite the view that there is no need for one, because 'everybody' now carries a mobile/cell-phone that has an inbuilt watch, I don't have the latest iPhone, Android or Crackberry to wave around. To my mind they are just a PITA and no less a status-symbol than a watch! Ha mentioned a number of pros for wearing a wrist-watch, all of which I agree with.... IMHO it's just easier to tell the time with in the main.

I guess it's just a generational thing, but I feel 'incompletely dressed' without a wrist-watch. And these days you can pick up a pretty decent no-name time-piece for around $15-$25, so a status-symbol it ain't. No Rolex, Omega, Tag-Heuer or even Timex for me, a wrist-watch does not a multi-millionaire make!

But, whatever gets you through the night

Cheers - Mick
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