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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-19-2006, 11:43 AM   #21
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
If someone knew you had an umbrella policy, would he/she be more or less likely to sue?
Precisely, I have often wondered that. *If you raise the amount of the umbrella policy above the "Standard" $1M are you advertising that you have something to lose?

I was listening to the "lawyer's hour" on our local radio station recently and he was expressing his opinion that people should be insured up to the level of their net worth, and that if they were, a plaintiff should not be allowed to receive damages higher than the insured amount. *For ERs this would be the ideal scenario - I doubt it'll happen though. *

jj
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-19-2006, 11:47 AM   #22
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

I could only get 1M umbrella insurance since I have teenage boys living in my household and on my auto insurance policy. And they charged me $501 a year (California maybe a factor). Without my boys on the policy, I would have been able to get 2M. I'm assuming that the price will drop once my kids have their own insurance.

Actually a lot of my insurance costs will drop once my kids are independant
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-19-2006, 12:55 PM   #23
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

For those of you having trouble getting higher umbrella limits, try GEICO/Berkshire Hathaway. They seem to be very willing to wriite high policy limits (quoted me up to 10MM right on the phone). I also recall that Berkshire was writing additional umbrella coverage where they would double your coverage for 90% of what your "first" umbrella policy premium was.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-19-2006, 01:00 PM   #24
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

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Originally Posted by (Cute Fuzzy Bunny)
Brewer...what do you think caused the "paintiff"s (sorry, thats a fun mis-spell) going after them...transparency of funds?* Did they get an investigator to find out if your parents had money?

What I'm getting at, aside from the umbrella, is there a strategy or method for hiding or improving transparency that you're "sue-able".* Does putting the money in a trust, or some specific investment vehicle make it harder for an investigator to find?
Not sure. They don't live large or have a lot of obvious wealth. For example, Dad like to buy older cars ("sleds", IMO) and drive them into the ground. In the past 10 years, he has had a 1985 Caddy, a 1987 Olds, a 1983 Buick Electra Wagon, a 1983 Suburban, and now has an early 90s F150 (for fishing, etc.) and a 1999 retired cop car that he gought with 90k on it and is up to about 140k. He wears very casual clothes (overalls that he doesn't bother to button the sides of are a favorite). You get the picture.

I suspect that a lot of the reason is that the accidents were in NYC and NJ, where litigation seems to be a way of life. As a resident of the Garden State ("Most corrupt politicians in the union"), I am seriously thinking about bumping my umbrella up from 1MM.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-19-2006, 01:02 PM   #25
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Huh...you'd think they'd not get a second glance for a lawsuit.

I figured I was buying myself something by dressing down and not driving fancy cars. Maybe not.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-19-2006, 11:03 PM   #26
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

I have my auto and $1M umbrella from geico. Since I am selling my house and will not have an officical abode for awhile, I called to find out if I will lose my umbrella policy since I will no longer have the supposedly required $300k liability from my home insurance and I don't need any rentor's insurance yet. I was told, I would not lose my umbrella policy. This means is that any lawsuit from an outside auto or non-auto related incident will be covered by 100% of my umbrella coverage while any lawsuit from a home related incident will be covered by $700k (less $300k deductible) umbrella coverage.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-20-2006, 03:25 AM   #27
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Hi Kramer,

Forgive me, but from what you've said (maxing out the cover on the car, etc.), it seems that you want to have the umbrella coverage as the cover you have now isn't enough for your own peace of mind.

Just my take.

Petey

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer
I have thought about getting an umbrella policy but do not have one.* Mainly because I am a renter, and I do not have renter's insurance, and I think this would be required.* I could replace my household items with one paycheck, so I don't see a need to insure them.* There is some diminishing risk of fire damage, if I did something negligent, but I could write a check for that low probability event, too (my building is mostly concrete).* But I am concerned about the big liability events.

As an apartment dweller, I have no yard, etc., and I am not self-employed, and so almost all my risk of being sued (95%+) for a big liability event is something happening while I am driving.* I raised my auto liability limits to the max, $500K total but it is only $250K per person.* I asked and I can't get them raised more.

Any renters with umbrella insurance?* Do you also have renter's insurance?* I would be willing to switch to an auto insurance company that had higher limits, if anyone knows of one. . . I looked at Geico and their max coverage was only $300K per accident.* Ideally, I would like to have $2M of coverage.

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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-20-2006, 08:21 AM   #28
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

We have a $2M umbrella to cover above and beyond the liability insurance on our house, cabin, cars and cabin "toys". We pay about $300 per year. It might attract some "flies" but not having it could knock a huge hole in my FIRE plans.

I see it as FIRE insurance.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-20-2006, 08:38 AM   #29
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
If someone knew you had an umbrella policy, would he/she be more or less likely to sue?
How will they know until they sue?
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-20-2006, 08:43 AM   #30
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Private investigator they hired, or they pay $25 to pull your credit report from one of the internet sites, do a little follow up after that...you'd be surprised how much you can find out for free or for just a few bucks.

By the way, nice pants!
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-20-2006, 02:35 PM   #31
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Petey, yep, I would definitely like to get the umbrella, even though I am renting.

Quote:
We are renters, have renter's insurance, and an umbrella policy of $1M. Will up it to $2M on renewal. Underwriter is Chubb. Total cost for both policies here in NYC is $1000 per year.
I personally would not get this if it is going to cost me $1K since the renters insurance is mostly worthless to me, but I can see if they would offer it to me for cheaper in California. I pay just $400 for my $500K of auto insurance liability now.

I am going to investigate going with Geico again. I am a Berkshire shareholder and that gives me an 8% discount.

Kramer
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-20-2006, 03:15 PM   #32
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

I don't have an umbrella policy even though I have more assets than my $250k/$500k car insurance covers me for.

I figure the odds of me being successfully sued are just not high enough to make it worth the approx $200 cost I was quoted.* I keep a pretty low profile, don't have people on my property very often, drive safely, and don't do things that I know might be hazardous to others.

From what I have read, the great majority of lawsuits seek only the insured amount, so you don't really get much benefit by increasing the insured amount.* In fact there might be a good argument to be made that increasing your insurance way beyond average does make you more likely to be sued.

I think having high coverage auto and condo insurance is a good compromise:* it doesn't cost me much extra and the high coverage is a strong enough motivation for the insurance lawyers to do a good job defending me, which is the main reason for insurance anyway.

It seems to me that the $200 per year could be much better spent on say better health insurance.**

One thing that makes me think umbrella coverage is overpriced is that it seems to be "one price" where everyone who gets a policy pays the same amount for the same amount of coverage.* * This is much different from auto insurance where your car and driving record strongly affect the premium, and condo/homeowner insurance where the particular property characteristics strongly affect the premium.* The fact that they don't seem to price according to actual risk indicates to me that the actual risk to them is exceedingly low and most of the cost goes towards administration and sales overhead.

If umbrella coverage could somehow cap my liability so that my assets would never be vulnerable then I would buy it in a heartbeat, but it only protects me against a small slice of possible scenarios.

It seems to me there are two main categories of judgements: small reasonable and huge out of control. My conventional insurance covers the former, and the latter can't be covered at all.

But I would be very interested in any information anyone has on how often umbrella insurance is actually exercised.



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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-22-2006, 01:45 PM   #33
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

I want to be assigned the insurance company's BEST lawyer!
To get that I figure I need to max out the insurance company's risk.

If I am at fault, and managed to paralyze the majority of
students on three school buses
I at least want to be able to cover their expenses.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-22-2006, 05:22 PM   #34
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireme
But I would be very interested in any information anyone has on how often umbrella insurance is actually exercised.
I don't know how often it is exercised but in 2004 my $1m premium was $227, in 2005, it when up 7%. This year it shot up another 10%.

So much for low inflation.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-22-2006, 07:51 PM   #35
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Look out MJ...Greenspan has a clear calendar now. You start talking smack about his nearly non-existant inflation and he might come over there and bauer you.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-22-2006, 08:04 PM   #36
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

I have had umbrella liability insurance for 5-6 years.* I was telling a friend of mine that he might want to consider getting some for himself, as his net worth is starting to grow.

When he called his agent to get pricing on unbrella liability insurance -- she quoted him $200 for $1 million coverage and said for only $10 he could increase his personal liability coverage to $1 million.

Can anyone explain the difference between umbrella and personal liaiblity insurance and why the huge difference in cost?*

Thanks,

omni

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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-22-2006, 08:59 PM   #37
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

I've been working on getting an umbrella policy through Allstate for the last few days and got a quote yesterday of $140 per year for $1 million of coverage, plus my auto insurance would increase by $256 per year to get my coverage up to the limits needed to sell me an umbrella policy. That seems to be about average around here as I had quotes in the $300-$500 per year range from other carriers.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-22-2006, 10:01 PM   #38
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by omni550
Can anyone explain the difference between umbrella and personal liaiblity insurance and why the huge difference in cost?
With no other info, i'll guess the breadth and depth of the coverage. The million for ten bucks probably covers anyone who gets hit in the head with a rock falling from the sky while they're on your front lawn, and if the lawn wasnt freshly mowed that morning...
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-23-2006, 08:02 AM   #39
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

Umbrella insurance is much cheaper than your other liability issurance because the odds of a claim are so much less. Most insurance claims are small claims.

I would never be without umbrella insurance given its small costs and what we have to lose.
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?
Old 02-23-2006, 09:49 AM   #40
 
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Re: Umbrella insurance levels while ER ?

One thing to keep in mind about umbrella insurance.* Our policy went from about $200 per year for 2 million in coverage to over $700 when our 16 year old son started driving... (and we had never had any auto claims in 25 years).

Those of you with young kids might want to include that in your Excel spreadsheets for your future expenses.*
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