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Old 09-24-2010, 08:20 PM   #21
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There is no hint of where he blows his money.
The blogger in my last post (samefacts) has taken some guesses on their real income and outgo based on some of the figures the blogger that started the hullabaloo gave out in his original post, like state and federal taxes.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:23 PM   #22
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Thanks, I see from those numbers that the guy is just totally clueless. He must be getting it from all sides: work, wife, kids, neighbors, etc.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:19 PM   #23
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T Don't confuse the county of New York (that includes Manhatten) with Manhatten.

<from wikipedia>
OFGS the County of NEW YORK is Manhattan
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:24 PM   #24
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Right you are. The outer boroughs are Brooklyn = Kings County; The Bronx = Bronx County; Queens = Queens County; and Staten Island = Richmond County.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:31 PM   #25
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Right you are. The outer boroughs are Brooklyn = Kings County; The Bronx = Bronx County; Queens = Queens County; and Staten Island = Richmond County.
I'm from Queens but DW was born "downtown"
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:42 PM   #26
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I guess LBYM still matters no matter how much you earn.

I have considerable empathy for a couple which outsources a number of tasks (like house cleaning) and uses daycare for their children so that they can both work demanding jobs with long hours and high stress levels. When we were both working we engaged full time domestic help for exactly that reason and to enable us to spend more time with the children when we are not working. I also have some sympathy with people who will be adversely affected by higher taxes (I will be one of them). But I still struggle to understand how a couple earning US$400K pa can fail to have a decent savings rate.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:46 PM   #27
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New York City includes more than just the upper east side.

I don't know where that info comes from, but if you go to the census data, you'll find numbers closer to the ones I posted.
Both sets of numbers ultimately come from the census bureau. The 47K per year is for new york city as a whole (the greater metro area) whereas the 100K per year is for manhattan itself. This is clearer if you go to

http://www.bea.gov/regional/reis/

and input new york (note FIPS code 36061 is manhattan)

Edit: the numbers are still a little different but that may be because the first set is per household and for 1999. The bea numbers are per capita for 2008 which would imply a household income of 90K for NYC and 200K for manhattan
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:50 PM   #28
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One problem is that one should not count their 401(k) / 403(b) contributions as an expense.

When we were living in NY we paid a young lady to care for our kid in our home. It's a minimum wage job, so not a major expense. I guess if you don't shop around you will always pay more than list price for anything you buy.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:16 PM   #29
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If you think earning 5x what your neighbors earn doesn't qualify you as rich, than you're right, we have nothing to say to one another.

A question for you though. If 5x the median isn't rich, does that make the median poor? Or are the modestly rich, maybe, just a little bit out of touch thinking that they are"solidly middle class" when the middle is really 80% beneath them?
If you are defining rich by income then you also need to take into account expenses which can easily be several times higher in certain metro areas. I think the median home price in the US is about 175K (Metropolitan Median Prices) compared to something like 700k in a high priced area like san francisco.

250K is certainly enough to be reasonably well off even in a high priced area, but it probably won't give you much more than a middle class lifestyle.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:21 PM   #30
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250K is certainly enough to be reasonably well off even in a high priced area, but it probably won't give you much more than a middle class lifestyle.
$250K in SF or NYC is generally comfortably upper middle class, but certainly not over the top "rich."

Where I currently live, on the other hand, $250K a year would be rich.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:22 PM   #31
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Where I currently live, on the other hand, $250K a year would be rich.
Naah. You'd squirrel so much of it away your neighbors would think you were just getting by...
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:23 PM   #32
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Naah. You'd squirrel so much of it away your neighbors would think you were just getting by...
"The Millionaire Next Door" style, that would be correct...
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:44 PM   #33
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If things ever get out of control around here, and we start chopping off the heads of the ill-mannered rich, the Toddster needs to head for the hills before he gets Marie Antoinette'ed. He might be high up on some folks' lists.

But if I'm wearing a Phrygian cap and serving on the Citizens' Committee for Guillotining - I may vote for a group more deserving of the chop. I'm speaking of a few hundred of the current ruling class that hang out in DC (I'm speaking of R's and D's equally - no partisanship here), and maybe a few of their select minions. They created this mess and they are the group least likely to get us out of it.

Anyway, I think Todd would have made more sense if he had just admitted, "Hell yes I am super-rich! But now, that I have to cut back on my wanton spending so I can pay my tax bills, guess what I'm not going to be doing? Buying goods and services from my fellow Chicagoans." Haven't we seen this before? Screw the rich and tax the hell out of them and the only people we really hurt are the working schmucks who make the stuff that the rich buy.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:01 PM   #34
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If you think that making $250k/year in Manhatten makes you rich then I've got nuthin' to say to you.
Put me on Ignore, then. I'm rich (IMHO), but this guy is stoopid rich. With an emphasis on "stoopid". If you can't see that you should probably start your own "stoopid rich" blog.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:19 PM   #35
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The rich don't pay tax myth is just that, a myth.

High income people pay the lions share of all the taxes. The bottom 50 percent of income people pay almost nothing. It is indeed accurate to state that your government is almost entirely funded by high income people.

Also your Manhatten stats on income are way off. Don't confuse the county of New York (that includes Manhatten) with Manhatten.

<from wikipedia>
If you mean only income taxes you have a point, but everyone pays taxes and the overall tax burden is fairly uniform. The rich pay more because they have and get so much more
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:44 PM   #36
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$250K in SF or NYC is generally comfortably upper middle class, but certainly not over the top "rich."
250 - 400K provides a quite comfortable, upper middle class lifestyle even in a place like SF, more so if you live like a Millionaire Next Door.

But it is common sense, at least to me, that if you have 500K in student loans, no matter where you live, maybe you hold off on having 3 kids, or don't buy a million dollar house with right away, or maybe move to a neighborhood with good public schools and avoid the private school expense. With that kind of income I don't know why you would have to be stressed out over money.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:55 PM   #37
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"The rich pay more because they have and get so much more"


Sorry, but I have to take issue with that comment. The "rich" make more money (if they are like my wife and I) because we work our asses off, employ and pay health insurance, life insurance and disability for several employees, have gone to school for many years to earn a law degree from a prestigious university and took the risks of leaving a cushy law practice to venture out on our own.

We've never been given anything. We earned every last penny we have and I get real tired of the class warfare (i.e. jealousy) that is apparent even on these boards.

I also love the politico speak "a tax cut for the rich". Thanks so much for characterizing letting me keep some of the money I have earned (for which the government hasn't done a damn thing) as a tax break. Jeez, thanks for doing nothing (big Government) and allowing me to keep less than 50% of what my sweat and toil has earned.

We don't "get some much more", we work hard, employ others and earn it. Show me a poor man who creates jobs for others. Good luck,
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:57 PM   #38
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The Henderson's live in CHICAGO.

I would LOVE to know how much tax dollars goes to his university and her hospital.

If the government did not subsidize student loans the price of higher education for everyone would drop through the floor and with it, his tax payer propped up bloated salary.
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:09 AM   #39
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OFGS the County of NEW YORK is Manhattan
While this is basically true, New York County does include a few things besides the island of Manhattan.

Two islands in the East River, Randall's Island and Roosevelt Island, are part of New York County, as well as the historical Ellis Island and Liberty Island (and a few others). But there is a small part of the U.S. mainland, which contains the Bronx, which is actually part of New York County. The neighborhood of Marble Hill is actually part of New York County because back in the 1890s the Harlem River was rerouted to flow south of Marble Hill instead of north of it.

Marble Hill, Manhattan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Manhattan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:14 AM   #40
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250 - 400K provides a quite comfortable, upper middle class lifestyle even in a place like SF, more so if you live like a Millionaire Next Door.

But it is common sense, at least to me, that if you have 500K in student loans, no matter where you live, maybe you hold off on having 3 kids, or don't buy a million dollar house with right away, or maybe move to a neighborhood with good public schools and avoid the private school expense. With that kind of income I don't know why you would have to be stressed out over money.

Hey, someone else saw the same thing I did... the $500K in student loan debt... that is the killer IMO...


As for Manhattan.... of course someone could live in Jersey and cut expenses... not sure where to go in Chicago....
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