Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-25-2010, 06:19 PM   #101
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiredgun View Post
Just to be clear (to quote a certain president):

There is absolutely no evidence that the Bush tax cuts led to or In any way contributed to the housing meltdown despite what liberals would like to believe.
I missed this one. Which liberal groups blamed tax cuts for the housing fiasco? That seems like the kind of whacko theory the far right might gin up

Edit: nah, can't blame it on the right. Maybe those black helicopter guys? UFOlogists?
__________________

__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is online now  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-25-2010, 06:23 PM   #102
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,147
I hear the faint squeal of approaching porcine creatures.
__________________

__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:50 PM   #103
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 95
Just to be clear, I was quoting Donheff:

"In light of the tax cut, and the debt disaster that followed, the only prudent course is to sock away a small fortune to survive the eventual reckoning."

He clearly links the tax cuts to the meltdown. Sorry but that was a housing crisis.

But I do agree with Donheff's personal solution, socking away a small fortune. I disagree that the tax cuts were the cause of the debt. The current administration has added about 3 trillion in debt, more than from all the presidents from Washington to Regan. And most of that "stimulus" spending went to payoff unions and party supporters. Not the shovel ready projects we were promised. That being said, I fully acknowledge that politicians on either side (left or right) are lying, spending scumbags.
__________________
Hiredgun is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:59 PM   #104
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I hear the faint squeal of approaching porcine creatures.
"Here piggy, piggy..."
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:08 PM   #105
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiredgun View Post
Just to be clear, I was quoting Donheff:

"In light of the tax cut, and the debt disaster that followed, the only prudent course is to sock away a small fortune to survive the eventual reckoning."

He clearly links the tax cuts to the meltdown. Sorry but that was a housing crisis.

But I do agree with Donheff's personal solution, socking away a small fortune. I disagree that the tax cuts were the cause of the debt. The current administration has added about 3 trillion in debt, more than from all the presidents from Washington to Regan. And most of that "stimulus" spending went to payoff unions and party supporters. Not the shovel ready projects we were promised. That being said, I fully acknowledge that politicians on either side (left or right) are lying, spending scumbags.
Just to be clear, donheff is me And I didn't and don't link the housing crisis to the debt disaster. I didn't even mention the housing crisis. The debt disaster that we all bemoan arose because of uncalled for tax cuts coupled with unfunded, uncontrolled spending (wars, medicare prescription programs). The housing crisis triggered the recession which exacerbated the debt situation but I agree that Dems and the GOP jointly set that up.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is online now  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:16 PM   #106
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff View Post
That suggestion comes up all the time around here but it makes no sense. It is like asking a 65 YO Tea Partier why he doesn't refuse Medicare.
Well, I respectfully disagree. For example, I'm not a believer in unemployment insurance, so on the occasions in life where I was qualified to take it, I did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff View Post
My "fair share" isn't fair if only I pay it. My few dollars by themselves would make no dent in the debt.
That's the "no drop of rain ever accepts responsibility for the flood" defense, which again, I respectfully disagree with. If everyone I heard using that excuse to not do something of value actually did what was valuable instead of claiming it would make no difference, a substantial, valuable difference would have been made.

This is one of the reasons I always enjoyed studying economics -- forget about what people claim to believe and watch their actions -- their actions show in no uncertain terms what they truly believe.
__________________
Nick59 is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:48 PM   #107
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiredgun View Post
Your argument about the government misses the point. I grew up poor and maybe the government provided the environment for me to get rich if I worked my ass off, true. But it also offers that opportunity to all and everyone must make their own choices.

.
OFGS Millions of people all over the world work hard. The government in the USA makes it possible for that hard work to pay off. Possible, not even probable but possible.

If you think its possible without a stable government, go to Kabul and strut your stuff. no government there to bother you
__________________
Emeritus is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:08 PM   #108
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 95
Okay, the USA does make it possible for you to be successful. I agree and am only referring to people in the USA. Rich and poor in the USA.

I didn't take the discussion to other countries, you did.

And everyone in the USA has the opportunity to better themselves. That's my point. I was raised poor, I chose to better myself. So no, I don't have contempt for poor people, I was one.

But I also don't have sympathy for those who remain poor due to their own poor choices. For example:

2 of my employees have starting salaries around 40K. My wife and I make substantially more than that running the business. In the morning, these 2 employees bring in coffee from Starbucks. At lunch, they always go out and bring containers from Paradise Bakery, California Pizza Kitchen, etc.

By contrast, my wife and I brew coffee at work and bring a brown bag lunch. Around 3 days or so before every paycheck, I hear these employees bitching about how they don't know if they are going to make it to the next paycheck. And one of these employees, I know for a fact, got about a $10,000 increase from her last job when I hired her 4 months ago.

My point is that people make choices, good and bad, and pay for the consequences. Is the U.S. the greatest country on earth for fairness and opportunity, absolutely! But people have to choose whether to take advantage of that opportunity or not to.

I don't have contempt for those that don't take advantage of the benefits of this country but I also don't feel sorry for them. And I am disturbed by the fact that the current Obama Administration wants to take more and more of my hard earned salary to provide benefits for those who choose not to work hard and not to strive for a better life.

Everyone is entitled to their poor choices but I think those choices should have consequences. I feel the same for businesses, ala General Motors. We can see how well that bailout is working.

One Senator put it well recently explaining why consequences are necessary for positive behavior. He said just look at a wedding. Compare the different behavior of the guests when it is an "open bar" versus a "cash bar". I think that says it all. Currently the U.S. is moving toward and "open bar" and I don't think this story ends well.
__________________
Hiredgun is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:12 PM   #109
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 95
By the way Emeritus, what is your solution for those who are poor due to their own poor choices?

Do you think we should take more and more from those who work hard and just give it to the "poor"?

What do you think is the maximum rate that we should tax those that are successful? It's getting close to 50% when you add everything up.

What would be your limit? 60%, 70%, 100%? Just curious how much you think the government should be allowed to confiscate from you due to your success?
__________________
Hiredgun is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:20 PM   #110
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bikerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeritus View Post
OFGS Millions of people all over the world work hard. The government in the USA makes it possible for that hard work to pay off. Possible, not even probable but possible.
Sounds like the chicken & egg question. An argument can be made that the hard work of citizens enables a government to be formed. If either fails to hold up their end, then neither will function properly.
__________________
“I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said” Alan Greenspan
Bikerdude is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:20 PM   #111
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeritus View Post
What a hoot of a blog.

He is a freaking law professor. I'm a lawyer married to a doctor and I worked to learn the tax code inside out. He buys a house with a $15,000 annual tax bill but still sends his kids to private schools
If you have massive educational debt you have to defer something. Kids or the big house

Sheesh
Don't knock the guy for doing private school. I pay a lot of local taxes too but I send my children to private school. The state of public eduacation is not very good in the US. Even so called excellent public schools do not offer a well rounded classical education in a single sexed environment. If that's important to you as a parent, you have no choice but to choose a private school. I wanted my children to have the same type of education I had grounded in the arts and sciences in a single sex environment and I could not find it in any of the public school in my area. In addition, I was looking for a school that would educate the whole child and sadly the US public education is severely lacking in that respect.
__________________
Letj is online now  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:09 PM   #112
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 281
Quote:
Don't knock the guy for doing private school.
No one is knocking private school at all. It is the sum total of his lifestyle choices that are being questioned. With 500K in student debt and a negative net worth, more frugal minded people might defer having 3 kids, the private schools or the million dollar house.

As MichaelB said -

"If they were to ask advice, folks here would immediately recommend a less expensive combination of schools / mortgage / cars. Pay off the student debt as quickly as possible, even if that meant giving up other pleasures."
__________________
TooFrugal is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:13 PM   #113
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooFrugal View Post
No one is knocking private school at all. It is the sum total of his lifestyle choices that are being questioned. With 500K in student debt and a negative net worth, more frugal minded people might defer having 3 kids, the private schools or the million dollar house.
Or, as my mother said to me when I was young: "You can have anything you want. You just can't have everything you want." Life always involves tradeoffs, regardless of your income level. Those unwilling to learn this lesson are doomed to unhappiness.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:14 PM   #114
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiredgun View Post
I don't have contempt for those that don't take advantage of the benefits of this country but I also don't feel sorry for them. And I am disturbed by the fact that the current Obama Administration wants to take more and more of my hard earned salary to provide benefits for those who choose not to work hard and not to strive for a better life.
+1

Beating Buffett » A Tale for Modern Times
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:37 PM   #115
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 898
-1
__________________
Someday this war's gonna end . . .
ChrisC is offline  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:42 PM   #116
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,147
__________________

__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Unable to connect to E-R.org Amethyst Forum Admin 8 04-04-2009 07:12 PM
Cheapest way to repair/minimize scrape on car door? soupcxan Other topics 22 01-17-2009 09:10 PM
250K income - Pointers? Username79 Young Dreamers 20 10-30-2008 08:33 AM
Unable to edit own posts? cute fuzzy bunny Forum Admin 21 06-23-2005 08:15 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:17 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.