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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 07:43 AM   #41
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

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Originally Posted by ex_CFO_now_RVer
While I agree that many executives are grossly overpaid, it is often the Board of Directors that determines what is contributed to the Pension plan each year subject to minimums and maximums.
Do you mean "most" instead of "many"? Is it true that the board of directors is responsible for determing the CEO compensation? Is that true that most of the members of the board are CEOs from other companies? Is it true that they only care about their own interests?
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 07:46 AM   #42
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky
Do you mean "most" instead of "many"? Is it true that the board of directors is responsible for determing the CEO compensation? Is that true that most of the members of the board are CEOs from other companies? Is it true that they only care about their own interests?
Are these serious questions? I honestly can't tell. Anyway, for those
of you who may be getting confused, in a corporation, the Board of
Directors sets CEO compensation. That's the way it works.

JG
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 08:04 AM   #43
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey

I also agree with some posters that in general executives are grossly overpaid. I would loive to see something done about that, but it doesn't seem likely.

Mikey
Mikey MIkey Mikey! Would you rather give the money to the government? BTW, I share indymom's frustration. My solution?
Don't vote. If you think both parties are nuts and working
against your best interests.........just stay home. Or, you can hold
your nose and vote against the evil of 2 lessers. I choose to
not participate in what I view as farcical in the extreme.

JG
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 11:59 AM   #44
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Actually I think BOTH parties have been co-opted by special interest hot-button issues.

I'm a life-long political conservative, but unfortunately I dont agree with the republican party on just about ANY issue they've picked up.

On airlines...riddle me this batman...why is it that airlines cant get the cost of a meal under $10 (and it still sucks) and I can buy any decent frozen dinner I want for under $3, and Macdonalds can produce a sandwich, french fries and a drink for under $4?

The 'airline meals' come frozen just like a Hungry Man does, they warm it up...so whats the deal? It costs $6 per meal to bring it out in that little elevator truck and put it on the airplane?!?

With that sort of "economy" that I can get my arms around easily, it makes me wonder what sort of magic they're performing with the rest of the financial decisions.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 12:36 PM   #45
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

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Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
And of course, I have precisely the opposite view.* BTW, there is a fine line
between opining and whining*

JG
John Galt, the bleeding heart neo-con. He's always looking out for the poorly understood and under-regarded wealthy elite. No tax break for the rich is undeserved and taking advantage of the working class is just good capitalism at work.

Anyone who doesn't see the inherent truth in this is clearly whining.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 12:43 PM   #46
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Okay you two, dont make me come over there
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 12:57 PM   #47
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

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Originally Posted by th
Actually I think BOTH parties have been co-opted by special interest hot-button issues.

. . .
Please note that I haven't said anything good about Democrats in this thread. That's no accident. The Democrats have become the Party without a clue. No vision. No leadership. No clue.

But they are irrelevant to our current problems which are being driven by the ruling Party -- the current GOP defines itself based on their opinion on the 4 G's:

Guns
God
Gays and
Give-aways to the rich.

I'm convinced that Karl Rove and the current administration only really cares about the 4th G, but they've figured out that there are three ill-informed, 1-issue voter minorities defined by the first 3 G's. Pay lip-service to Guns, God and Gays and you get enough reactionary minority vote to win and drive your real agenda.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 01:10 PM   #48
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Mmm hmm. I thoroughly enjoyed a letter to 'dear abby' in the paper yesterday. She had given advice to a confused teenager about 'coming out' to her parents, that the parents would think they had done something wrong to cause her to 'become' gay.

Abby advised that it had little to do with parenting, and more to do with genetics.

The letter writer told abby that she had "better correct her error of judgement and retract that statement about being gay not being a choice, or it would clearly indicate that abby was a gay and lesbian mouthpiece".

Sad to see "Dear Abby" getting "dixie chicked".

Sadder still the state of affairs in politics in this country.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 07:20 PM   #49
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

I will repeat myself.* The following is from my GM bond post a couple of days ago, but its still applicable:

Quote: "When one realizes the BIG LIE behind socialism, communism, and corporatism (work hard now, AND WE PROMISE we'll take care of you when you are old and frail) and takes control of their own future fate, they are finally living in the present, self reliant and not dependent, and have the ability to transform themselves from peasants to feemen.* Its been that way since the first wage was paid to the guy pulling stones to build the Pyramids.* Too bad few ever truly get it until its too late."*

I personally believe this marks the beginning of the end of corporate power. Once the executives and their shareholders act on the premise that ethics and good faith too expensive for the balance sheet, the seeds for social reactions are sown. Recall that a corporation is a creature of the law, and can be dissolved if the host society deems it to be the better choice. Watch what happens as all the pensions collapse to the lowest standards of the PBGC and the population of defrauded employees swell. This is the economic and political kindling that formets rebellion and chaos.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 07:27 PM   #50
 
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

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Originally Posted by LEX
I will repeat myself. The following is from my GM bond post a couple of days ago, but its still applicable:

When one realizes the BIG LIE behind socialism, communism, and corporatism (work hard now, AND WE PROMISE we'll take care of you when you are old and frail) ...
A corporate pension is deferred compensation and has nothing to do with communism. It is earned and is not a handout.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 07:37 PM   #51
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Having traveled extensively in the CIS since 1989, might I suggest* that the Russian pensioners who had their life savings destroyed when the ruble was revalued believed with some merit that they had lost a vested right that was owned as if it were property.* (By the way, the Soviets in the 1980's Perisroika, as well as throughout the Soviet rule did have savings and they were able to invest, albiet very limited compared to our standards.) The breach of promise is the same regardless of jurisdiction.* The fall of Soviet Russia should be instructive to those who presume that massive and sudden economic and political displacement can not occur in the United States.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 07:44 PM   #52
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Hmmm

In the words of that legendary investment guru(right up there with Yogi) - what do you want in an Alabama linebacker?

'agile, mobile, and hostile'.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 07:53 PM   #53
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

I wish that UAL would ask themselves "What would Bear Bryant do?" before they pulled the carpet out from the thousands commitments that were behind each pension.* There are stories behind each pension, lives spent, and now depreciated as if they were disposable.* What is the value of a life spent in service to an employer?* Each of these pensioners and their families are now in a position of betrayed trust.*

From a legal stand point, I wonder if the UAL and similar retirees have standing to sue under a theory of fraud to obtain services without payment? The big story, in my opinion, is the corporate and political moral vacuum that allows this to occur.* *
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-12-2005, 11:59 PM   #54
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
Hmmm

In the words of that legendary investment guru(right up there with Yogi) - what do you want in an Alabama linebacker?

'agile, mobile, and hostile'.
Amen, Brother Mick...

Although, if I'm a father in 'Bama, I'll add "...Not fertile..."
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-13-2005, 04:29 AM   #55
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX
I wish that UAL would ask themselves "What would Bear Bryant do?" before they pulled the carpet out from the thousands commitments that were behind each pension.* There are stories behind each pension, lives spent, and now depreciated as if they were disposable.* What is the value of a life spent in service to an employer?* Each of these pensioners and their families are now in a position of betrayed trust.*

From a legal stand point, I wonder if the UAL and similar retirees have standing to sue under a theory of* fraud to obtain services without payment? The big story, in my opinion, is the corporate and political moral vacuum that allows this to occur.* *
HI LEX. A suit would be a waste of time. All the rules change once a
company goes into bankruptcy. Once again, Martha can confirm this.

JG
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-13-2005, 06:01 AM   #56
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Lifetime pensions are dying (faster than the receipients). Portable plans like 401(k), SEP, etc. are replacing them everywhere. Yell, fight, whine, vote, don't vote, thats the megatrend.


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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-13-2005, 07:14 AM   #57
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

In contrast to Bear Bryant's agile linebacker - more PC - Thomas L. Friedman has popped out - 'The World is Flat---' this year(previous of 'Lexus and The Olive Tree') - portability of pensions is also in there

On the short list for my birthday - unless someone here reads it and gives a bad book report.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-13-2005, 10:12 AM   #58
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

JG:

You are right in the general rule. Judgement creditors are placed into the order of payment with general obligations. However, in the event of fraud a court may set BK protections aside and allow unusual equitable remedies. Lex
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-13-2005, 12:08 PM   #59
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

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Originally Posted by BUM
Lifetime pensions are dying (faster than the receipients). Portable plans like 401(k), SEP, etc. are replacing them everywhere. Yell, fight, whine, vote, don't vote, thats the megatrend.*
To me this sounds a little bit like, "Safe neighborhoods are dying (faster than the perverts). Pedophiles, crack heads and murders are replacing them everywhere. Yell, fight, whine, vote, don't vote, that's the megatrend.
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....
Old 05-13-2005, 03:47 PM   #60
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Re: United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX
I wish that UAL would ask themselves "What would Bear Bryant do?" before they pulled the carpet out from the thousands commitments that were behind each pension. There are stories behind each pension, lives spent, and now depreciated as if they were disposable. What is the value of a life spent in service to an employer? Each of these pensioners and their families are now in a position of betrayed trust.

From a legal stand point, I wonder if the UAL and similar retirees have standing to sue under a theory of fraud to obtain services without payment? The big story, in my opinion, is the corporate and political moral vacuum that allows this to occur.
Where would you suggest UAL get's the money to pay for these pensions? They can't afford them!
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