Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[RunningBum]

If a person is a hard core cordcutter and you still want to see college football games your best bet is to sign up for Sling Orange for those months at $20/mo. You get ESPN 1,2 and 3. That took care of what I was interested in but Sling Blue might work better in other areas of the country as some conferences like the Pac 12 are featured more on it through Fox.

No BTN kills that for me. I'd have to go with one of the other services.

 

[Midpack]

Truth in advertising.

I've been a cheerleader for cord cutting and specifically PlayStation Vue, it's the best fit for our needs and location. We've had it for 3 months now, and it's been great, half the cost of satellite with more capability. However, over the last two weeks it's been freezing up a couple times a day, sometimes a couple times (10-20 secs each) in succession during a show. It does seem to happen during prime time or major sporting events. We assume it has to be a problem with PS Vue, versus our ISP, WiFi or Roku's, because programming resumes where it left off - that has to be Vue? And we don't have lockups with YouTube, PBS Passport or other streaming channel/apps.

Hopefully it'll get better, service was almost perfect for the first few months. And we're still happy over all. FWIW

 

[Dawg52]

No BTN kills that for me. I'd have to go with one of the other services.

Probably PS Vue then. The one I liked the best but more costly.

Truth in advertising.

I've been a cheerleader for cord cutting and specifically PlayStation Vue, it's the best fit for our needs and location. We've had it for 3 months now, and it's been great, half the cost of satellite with more capability. However, over the last two weeks it's been freezing up a couple times a day, sometimes a couple times (10-20 secs each) in succession during a show. It does seem to happen during prime time or major sporting events. We assume it has to be a problem with PS Vue, versus our ISP, WiFi or Roku's, because programming resumes where it left off - that has to be Vue? And we don't have lockups with YouTube, PBS Passport or other streaming channel/apps.

Hopefully it'll get better, service was almost perfect for the first few months. And we're still happy over all. FWIW

I rarely had freezing with Vue, but did with all the rest. No service is perfect tho. I went back to Comcast cable due to a promo and I get an error code on one channel. Finally got them to write up a ticket on it as nothing worked with their troubleshooting. That was 3 days ago and still not resolved.

 

[Midpack]

I rarely had freezing with Vue, but did with all the rest. No service is perfect tho. I went back to Comcast cable due to a promo and I get an error code on one channel. Finally got them to write up a ticket on it as nothing worked with their troubleshooting. That was 3 days ago and still not resolved.

Yeah, we had cable for more than 10 years, then satellite (Dish & Direct) for more than 10 years, now streaming Vue. None have been perfect...

 

[Cobra9777]

Truth in advertising.

I've been a cheerleader for cord cutting and specifically PlayStation Vue, it's the best fit for our needs and location. We've had it for 3 months now, and it's been great, half the cost of satellite with more capability. However, over the last two weeks it's been freezing up a couple times a day, sometimes a couple times (10-20 secs each) in succession during a show. It does seem to happen during prime time or major sporting events. We assume it has to be a problem with PS Vue, versus our ISP, WiFi or Roku's, because programming resumes where it left off - that has to be Vue? And we don't have lockups with YouTube, PBS Passport or other streaming channel/apps.

Hopefully it'll get better, service was almost perfect for the first few months. And we're still happy over all. FWIW

When we first got PS Vue, I noticed some minor freezing (1 or 2 seconds, maybe once or twice per day... nothing like 10-20 seconds). That was several months ago. I haven't noticed any freezing at all since then. We run PS Vue on a 2nd generation Fire TV box over FiOS 50/50 and hardwired to the router. Also, we rarely watch live; almost always shows we record on the cloud DVR.

 

[NC 57]

Cord Cutting

DW and I cut the cable cord in October 2017. We opted to use the wireless network in my home to deliver all signals, including over the air, to the televisions. Hardware solution is:
1) Linksys Velop 3 node high speed wireless mesh network. Supports televisions, laptops, tablets and smart devices throughout the home.
2) Spectrum Cable internet connected to high speed modem and mesh network. We have 100 mbps service but 50 mbps would be sufficient.
3) GE antenna outdoor antenna ($40) installed in attic and connected by cable to Silicon Dust HD Homerun Quattro. We receive 26 crystal clear digital channels of free over the air programming from transmitters 30-50 miles away
4) Silicon Dust HD HomeRun Quattro. Broadcasts over the air television signals from the antenna across the mesh network to televisions and other devices (laptops, smart phones, tablets)
5) Apple TV. One for each television in the home. Receives internet and over the air (via attic antenna and HD HomeRun) signals from the Linksys Velop wireless network.

Software solution:
1) Hulu Live TV is our primary provider. Streams 50 live channels plus Hulu's on demand movie and TV show library. Appears as an App on the Apple TV home page. Cost $40 per month.
2) Amazon Prime - Streaming library of shows and movies. Appears an an App on the Apple TV home page. Cost $90 per year and includes a number of other services including free shipping on Amazon, music streaming, and ebook downloading.
3) PBS app - Appears as an App on the Apple TV home page. A $60 annual tax deductible contribution to PBS gives access to on demand streaming of thousands of current and past PBS shows.
4) Netflix - Netflix stream library delivered via app on Apple TV. Cost $11.00 per month.
5) Channels app on Apple TV. Delivers all of the over the air programming from the attic antenna. Includes a very nice programming screen showing what shows are currently airing as well as upcoming shows. Other devices (laptops, cell phones, tablets) receive over the air through an HD Homerun app.
6) YouTube - App on Apple TV. There is a huge amount of free on demand programming on YouTube.

HD Homerun and Hulu have DVR options. We have not executed them because we are streaming almost all programming. Our viewing habits have changed since cutting the cable TV subscription. Today we watch very little live programming.

Almost all of the programming we currently watch is movies or TV shows streamed from Amazon Prime, Netflix, YouTube and PBS.

Our cable TV bill was $105.00 (television only) per month before we cut the cord.

We are extremely happy with the switch. Streaming video allows us to watch commercial free as well as take breaks and resume programming in progress. The Apple TV's are networked so we can start streaming a show in the family room, suspend watching it, and resume watching in the bedroom or kitchen just by clicking the show's image on the home page. I take a laptop to my basement shop and watch "how to" videos on YouTube when working on a project. The system will also easily link directly with apps on smart TV's, without having to use an external Apple TV box. We use the Apple TV's with our smart TV's so we have the same interface throughout the house and the ability to easily transition from one TV to another wherever we are watching a show.

Running this system with multiple video streaming devices requires 50 mbps internet service at $59 per month and a high speed wireless network. We have up to 4 televisions, 4 laptops, 1 desktop computer, 3 cell phones, 4 Apple TV's, smart thermostats, and multiple security cameras on the network. The Linksys Velop mesh system does a terrific job handling all of these devices and routing the signals so we have trouble free streaming of video and data. It can handle 50 devices so if we add additional smart devices (speakers, smart appliances) in the future we will have capacity.

As to technical problems Hulu Live occasionally freezes. Seems to be a Hulu problem. It is easily resolved by changing channels and then switching back to what we are watching but it is annoying. We also suspect our cable system throttles internet service occasionally but Spectrum denies it. Coincidentally or not, when data download speeds seem slow on the computer, if we run the speed test on Spectrum's website our service suddenly speeds up for several days.

We went with the Apple TV because we were already in the Apple ecosystem (computers, tablets, smartphones). If we hadn't wanted to integrate into the seamless Apple ecosystem we would have gone with Roku for streaming to the televisions.

 

[NoMoreJob]

We use YouTube TV for two reasons. First, technically it has been perfect for us. No hiccups whatsoever. I tried most of the other services before YouTube TV (because YouTube TV wasn't available yet) and had problems to varying degrees with all of them. My wife was not tolerant of this. Second, YouTube TV has an excellent lineup of sports networks including ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, Big10, SEC, most regional sports networks (in that region), etc.

 

[Midpack]

Which live streaming package - e.g. Sling TV, DirecTV Now, PlayStation Vue, Hulu Live, or YouTube TV - is best for anyone depends on:

• what your household live channel preferences are (if any)
• what your cloud DVR or On-Demand preferences are
• your budget
• what’s specifically available live streaming in your location (it’s not universal),
• what’s specifically available OTA in your location IF you’re willing to augment with OTA, and
• what other On-Demand only packages you use - e.g. Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu

There is no best or right live streaming package, and what each offers changes frequently anyway. What’s best today, may not be next month/year - thank goodness they’re all no contract.

 

[NoMoreJob]

Which live streaming package - e.g. Sling TV, DirecTV Now, PlayStation Vue, Hulu Live, or YouTube TV - is best for anyone depends on:

• what your household live channel preferences are (if any)
• what your cloud DVR or On-Demand preferences are
• your budget
• what’s specifically available live streaming in your location (it’s not universal),
• what’s specifically available OTA in your location IF you’re willing to augment with OTA, and
• what other On-Demand only packages you use - e.g. Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu

There is no best or right live streaming package, and what each offers changes frequently anyway. What’s best today, may not be next month/year - thank goodness they’re all no contract.

I'll second all of your points.

One thing I'll add is that streaming - especially streaming of live TV - isn't for everyone. You need to be at least a tad bit techie and willing to figure things out and do things a differently. If that's not the case you will be frustrated and likely go back to what you had.

 

[Cobra9777]

Do any of the live streaming services (Sling, YouTube, Direct TV Now, etc) offer 1080p and/or 5.1 surround sound? We have PS Vue, which is 720P and stereo. It's acceptable, but when I switch to Netflix or Amazon Prime, I can really notice the improvement.

 

[explanade]

Do any of the live streaming services (Sling, YouTube, Direct TV Now, etc) offer 1080p and/or 5.1 surround sound? We have PS Vue, which is 720P and stereo. It's acceptable, but when I switch to Netflix or Amazon Prime, I can really notice the improvement.

I don't believe so.

Real test is going to be when 4K HDR streaming becomes more common.

 

[Midpack]

Do any of the live streaming services (Sling, YouTube, Direct TV Now, etc) offer 1080p and/or 5.1 surround sound? We have PS Vue, which is 720P and stereo. It's acceptable, but when I switch to Netflix or Amazon Prime, I can really notice the improvement.

Which networks broadcast live TV at 1080p? At one time none did higher than 720p or 1080i, but maybe that’s not true anymore?

And cable and satellite were all 720p or 1080i, do they offer 1080p Full HD now?

I know there’s on demand programming in 1080p Full HD and even 4K UHD, but live TV?

Our picture quality with PS Vue is every bit as good as Dish Network, but our receivers weren’t the latest and greatest.

[I Googled and couldn’t find anything definitive]

 

[Dawg52]

Do any of the live streaming services (Sling, YouTube, Direct TV Now, etc) offer 1080p and/or 5.1 surround sound? We have PS Vue, which is 720P and stereo. It's acceptable, but when I switch to Netflix or Amazon Prime, I can really notice the improvement.

This doesn't answer your question but I found it interesting. According to the forum boards with Comcast, they migrated from 1080i to 720p back in 2016. In the discussion Comcast says......

In regards to 720p delivery, some of your HD Channels have transitioned from 1080i to 720p60. As part of our ongoing work to improve and modernize the way we deliver HD channels, we are transitioning all of our HD streams to “progressive” format. We are making this change in conjunction with the transition to MPEG-4. This means that some channels that were delivered in 1080i will now be delivered in 720p60.

Comcast downgrading all 1080i HD channels to 720p - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 2806786

I'm not a tech guy so I have no idea if this is suppose to be as good as the old 1080i, but many Comcast customers in the discussion claim their picture is much softer as a result. I haven't had Comcast HD for many years( until recently )so I can't really say. But I would say PS Vue's picture quality is darn close to what I have now. Looks like we may be a long way off from having 4k quality in cable packages.

 

[Cobra9777]

Which networks broadcast live TV at 1080p? At one time none did higher than 720p or 1080i, but maybe that’s not true anymore?

And cable and satellite were all 720p or 1080i, do they offer 1080p Full HD now?

I know there’s on demand programming in 1080p Full HD and even 4K UHD, but live TV?

Our picture quality with PS Vue is every bit as good as Dish Network, but our receivers weren’t the latest and greatest.

[I Googled and couldn’t find anything definitive]

I don't have a definitive answer either. However, before PS Vue, we had FiOS broadcast-tier TV (no STB). My TV identified the signal as 1080P and my AVR identified the audio as 5.1 surround sound. The picture on PS Vue is certainly acceptable, but not as good as what we had before. Since I have a somewhat elaborate surround sound system, I'm actually more concerned about the audio.

 

[Rustic23]

this url says Youtube TV has 1080p https://www.techhive.com/article/3220501/streaming-services/youtube-tv-review-patience-pays-off.html

"YouTube TV supports up to 1080p resolution at 30 frames per second, and up to 720p at 60 frames per second"

One of the better reviews of YT TV

 

[jim584672]

Broadcast OTA is either 720p or 1080i.

 

[audreyh1]

Sounds like you don't watch much current stuff on channels like AMC. Of course Netflix and Prime have a ton of content so if anyone is happy with what they have to offer then ability to access and trickplay current cable content will be irrelevant.

Right - pretty much didn’t watch any of the regular cable channels.

We don’t watch news - rather we read it when we want to be informed. But we do have PBS news and Bloomberg available if we really want to watch something. I might tune into a Federal Reserve press conference occasionally.

 

[Midpack]

I don't have a definitive answer either. However, before PS Vue, we had FiOS broadcast-tier TV (no STB). My TV identified the signal as 1080P and my AVR identified the audio as 5.1 surround sound. The picture on PS Vue is certainly acceptable, but not as good as what we had before. Since I have a somewhat elaborate surround sound system, I'm actually more concerned about the audio.

Sounds like you have a very nice rig!

 

[Midpack]

this url says Youtube TV has 1080p https://www.techhive.com/article/3220501/streaming-services/youtube-tv-review-patience-pays-off.html

"YouTube TV supports up to 1080p resolution at 30 frames per second, and up to 720p at 60 frames per second"

One of the better reviews of YT TV

Hmmm, the full quote paints a different picture?

While YouTube TV supports up to 1080p resolution at 30 frames per second, and up to 720p at 60 frames per second, some channels still aren’t providing the higher frame rates: 60fps is currently limited to ESPN channels, Fox and Fox Sports channels, and the Big Ten Network So if you’re watching sports, news, or talk shows on CBS or NBC channels, motion won’t look quite as smooth. DirecTV Now and PlayStation Vue are still ahead of other streaming bundles in this regard.

But they all have merits, advantages and disadvantages. For every credible review, there are more riddled with misinformation.

 

[explanade]

I don't have a definitive answer either. However, before PS Vue, we had FiOS broadcast-tier TV (no STB). My TV identified the signal as 1080P and my AVR identified the audio as 5.1 surround sound. The picture on PS Vue is certainly acceptable, but not as good as what we had before. Since I have a somewhat elaborate surround sound system, I'm actually more concerned about the audio.

ATSC only supports 1080i and 720p.

Networks are not likely supporting more than those resolutions.

Comcast has reportedly converted to 720p using H.264 at a low bitrate on most of their channels.

A streaming service could either downres or upscale but to save bandwidth, they're probably not upscaling.

I do think HBO Go and Showtime streaming is better than what you get from Comcast. Plus it's a better sound format, not just Dolby Digital but Dolby Digital Plus.

Netflix is obviously streaming 4K and HDR for people willing to pay more. But they're not going to use a real high bitrate.

Hulu is 720p but they also do 4K on Sony PS4 and MS Xbox One consoles, I heard. That's on their original programming, not on network shows that they stream.

 

[Cobra9777]

Sounds like you have a very nice rig!

I think so... front left/right are my prized 1982 Klipschorns. Center channel is a stacked pair of Klipsch Heresy's. Rear left/right are AR90s, that I bought new in 1979. Plus a pair of Klipsch 12" powered subwoofers. A rather conventional Sony AVR powers everything with an additional Denon amp for the AR90s, which are significantly less efficient than the Klipsch.

The whole rig seems grossly underutilized with PSV's stereo audio. But I trust that things are moving in the right direction. For now, audio is so much better with Netflix and Prime.

ATSC only supports 1080i and 720p...

Could you perhaps explain what that means...?

 

[explanade]

Thats the ATSC broadcast standard.

Specifically ATSC 1.0 which defined some resolution formats to support broadcasting HD signals.

So the studios and networks send their shows in either formats and their stations broadcast in those resolutions.

Recently ATSC 3.0 was finalized and next year there should be TVs with ATSC 3.0 tuners, meaning you can receive 4K broadcasts with HDR.

But so far, no network has talked about broadcasting in 4K resolutions.

One of the formats supported by ATSC 3.0 is 1080p with HDR. The thinking is that HDR makes more of a difference in picture quality than an increase in resolution.

So some networks may broadcast 1080p HDR content instead of 4K HDR.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

3) GE antenna outdoor antenna ($40) installed in attic and connected by cable to Silicon Dust HD Homerun Quattro. We receive 26 crystal clear digital channels of free over the air programming from transmitters 30-50 miles away
4) Silicon Dust HD HomeRun Quattro. Broadcasts over the air television signals from the antenna across the mesh network to televisions and other devices (laptops, smart phones, tablets)

5) Channels app on Apple TV. Delivers all of the over the air programming from the attic antenna. Includes a very nice programming screen showing what shows are currently airing as well as upcoming shows. Other devices (laptops, cell phones, tablets) receive over the air through an HD Homerun app.

I like your setup and have some questions: 1) Is there a monthly fee for the programming that comes with the Channels app? 2)Are your stations from more than one market? If so, how good a job does Channels do at picking up the programming from multiple markets? 3) Your loss of antenna signal is minimal because you do not split the signal and run it through the house. Instead you use the HomeRun to distribute the signal. I set my system up years ago. Did not see the HomeRun as a possibility. Did you try the conventional way of running the antenna feed to each TV? If so, how improved is the signal using a HomeRun? 4) I can look this up, but do you know if there is a Channels equivalent for Roku?
Thanks.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

The cord cutting has been good for us, but I have it in my mind that all good things must come to an end. I don't think it will be too long before the individual channels (or groups owned by same entity) will go to a subscription service (like the CBS All Access) and will start charging a lot of money to the streaming services. So, we will be back to the old model of "pay the streamers a lot" or pay for true ala carte pricing of $4-5 per channel or group of channels.

 

[Midpack]

The cord cutting has been good for us, but I have it in my mind that all good things must come to an end. I don't think it will be too long before the individual channels (or groups owned by same entity) will go to a subscription service (like the CBS All Access) and will start charging a lot of money to the streaming services. So, we will be back to the old model of "pay the streamers a lot" or pay for true ala carte pricing of $4-5 per channel or group of channels.

May well be, there's been a lot of channel consolidation like Discovery-Scripps, Disney-Fox, etc. And it's rumored big ISP's will jack up their rates as they lose cable TV subscribers. The consolidations are varied, content-content vs content-infrastructure, who knows how it will all shake out. But I'm happy paying half for streaming TV in the meantime instead of double for cable or satellite. And now that we're free of 2 year contracts, we can change without penalty any time. YMMV