Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Samsara, Bakara? Hmmm have to look for that - sounds intriguing. Central Asia?

Two films by Ron Fricke.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770802/?ref_=nm_flmg_cin_2

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103767/?ref_=nm_flmg_cin_3

 

[audreyh1]

We also stream PBS using PBS Passport, it costs $60/yr minimum. You do lose some regional programming vs OTA (e.g. we lost America’s Test Kitchen among others) and you have to choose a local PBS station. That gives you local/regional PBS content, but it’s not transferable ***. And to my surprise, you can get PBS Newshour on YouTube free long before it appears on Passport (hours later) and actually an hour before it airs live OTA in Chicago?

*** we expect to move to another state this year, so we’ll have to decide between Chicago and the new location - you’re locked in for a year when you subscribe.

Just to point out the $60 per year PBS Passport is the annual membership fee, not in addition to it. It can also be paid $5 monthly. So you can turn it on and off if you aren’t using it for a while.

 

[corn18]

I cannot believe it, but we are cutting the cord! I never thought my wife would adapt to using something other than DTV which we have had since 1996. We moved and I subscribed to YTTV and DTVNow. We were using a chrome cast in the MBR and Roku in the den. We have chosen Roku so we don't have to use our phones. She is getting along swimmingly with it and we love it.

As for YTTV vs DTVN, we like the channel selection better for DTVN but the interface is terrible via Roku. YTTV is great via Roku but is missing a few channels we like (PBS and HGTV). Well give it a few months and see where we end up.

The part I like the best is no boxes. I just hung up our 70" TV over the fireplace and all I had to do was plug in the TV. Plugged the Roku stick in and plugged that into the USB on the TV. I added a sleek soundbar underneath the TV and it is all good. Then mounted our Roku TV on the wall in the workout room. Just plug it in and go. MBR got a Roku stick as well.

Of course, our new house is wired for all kinds of fancy ethernet distributed TV. Glad I don't have to figure out how to use that.

Life is good.

 

[REWahoo]

So, how many more TVs do you expect to buy?

That is starting to figure into our decisions on large purchases.

Yes, the "how many more" factor definitely figured into the decision process and something I tried, without success, to use to justify going with an OLED model. The LBYM factor plus the knowledge that when it comes to technology, there is always something better just around the corner (holographic TV?) won the day.

I compromised by going with a highly-rated LED set that met all our requirements - picture quality, sound quality, wide viewing angle, and bright enough to be seen well in a sunny room. We are both really enjoying watching some of the 4k showcase videos.

 

[Midpack]

Just to point out the $60 per year PBS Passport is the annual membership fee, not in addition to it. It can also be paid $5 monthly. So you can turn it on and off if you aren’t using it for a while.

Good clarification, Passport is part of $60 annual membership. However, a least with WTTW Chicago, while you could pay $5/mo, you had to commit to a year, or $60. You could not choose $5/mo month to month.

 

[SoReady]

I think I will probably try the combination of OTA with my $5 HD antenna and SlingTV which seems to have everything I want (need to pay extra for CNBC tho). My OTA gives clear PBS and local stations, including WGN.

The thing I like about AirTV is they claim to integrate the OTA with SlingTV on their channel guide. I can't find anywhere that I can see how this works or looks. I plan on calling them tomorrow to get some of my questions answered before I pull the trigger.

The nice thing about all these streaming offerings is that there is no contracts. Essentially if you don't like your current streamer, just switch to another!

 

[corn18]

I think I will probably try the combination of OTA with my $5 HD antenna and SlingTV which seems to have everything I want (need to pay extra for CNBC tho). My OTA gives clear PBS and local stations, including WGN.

The thing I like about AirTV is they claim to integrate the OTA with SlingTV on their channel guide. I can't find anywhere that I can see how this works or looks. I plan on calling them tomorrow to get some of my questions answered before I pull the trigger.

The nice thing about all these streaming offerings is that there is no contracts. Essentially if you don't like your current streamer, just switch to another!

Yes! I have them all at the same time and we're figuring out what works for us. Then I will just cnx what we don't use.

 

[timo2]

Actually, Dish's cheapest programming package is Welcome Pack... it isn't available on their website... you have to call them to get it... $20/more IIRC. it includes locals and some cable channels but is a pretty skinny package. We use it mainly because we don't get OTA.

I forgot about that one. It really is skinny. We don't get OTA either. We like the supplemental packages on the flex. Besides the local news, the only add on is the local sports pack. It has Rockies baseball. Last year I streamed the Rockies via MLB, and the cost came out the same for both methods.

 

[youbet]

Yes.

Econ 101 - Price is a function of supply and demand.

Yep!

Even if streaming providers had zero cost, they will price to maximize profit. They will likely end up (in aggregate) just below cable/satellite providers (who will become a niche market for the tech challenged.) Within the streaming industry, they will compete with each other.

I do like the consumer economics of streaming though since there are fewer constraints on competition such as exclusive franchises, etc.

 

[REWahoo]

Even if streaming providers had zero cost, they will price to maximize profit. They will likely end up (in aggregate) just below cable/satellite providers (who will become a niche market for the tech challenged.)

I think both cable and satellite TV are facing the same future as the land line...

...AT&T chief financial officer John Stephens told investors AT&T will be able to slash costs of television delivery by eventually retiring satellite service and rolling its U-verse TV into a single, self-installed, DirecTV set-top box product that will rely on broadband.

“It’s a device that allows us to, instead of rolling a truck to the home, we roll a UPS or FedEx truck to the home and deliver a self-install box,” Stephens said. “This allows the customer to use their own broadband. We certainly hope it’s our own fiber but it could be on anybody’s broadband. And they get the full-service premium package that we would normally deliver off satellite or over our IP-based U-verse service.”

https://stopthecap.com/2018/11/14/a...-and-u-verse-tv-in-favor-of-online-streaming/

“We’ve launched our last satellite,” John Donovan, CEO of AT&T Communications, said during a presentation to analysts.

https://spacenews.com/directv-owner-att-says-its-done-buying-satellites/

 

[youbet]

I think both cable and satellite TV are facing the same future as the land line...

Yes. In Illinois, ATT has petitioned to totally end traditional twisted pair phone service. Satellite and cable TV and even coax and fiber broadband will eventually follow. But at my (our) advanced age, I’m more concerned about pricing at our next renewal!!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Well, I found one of the disadvantages of cord cutting. I went to set up the TV in my DW's office and figured out that the 1st Generation of the Amazon Fire Stick will no longer support Directv Now, thus as soon as it updated the software, it would no longer work. This is fairly annoying since we had almost decided to keep Directv Now instead of SlingTV since the channel line up is similar but with most of the local channels which Sling doesn't have...but now I am rethinking my strategy. Sure, a new Stick is "only" about $30, but with nothing *really* wrong with it, I am annoyed at the planned obsolescence of this technology.

 

[timo2]

I think both cable and satellite TV are facing the same future as the land line...
/

Possibly, and eventually. Except cable based internet has a better thru-put for streaming than DSL, (unless the a fiber optic line runs right into your house and not just to the box in the back yard). and Satellite reception is more stable than internet. When we all have fiber optics directly into our living room and the internet is more stable, then your prediction will happen.

 

[Midpack]

Possibly, and eventually. Except cable based internet has a better thru-put for streaming than DSL, (unless the a fiber optic line runs right into your house and not just to the box in the back yard). and Satellite reception is more stable than internet. When we all have fiber optics directly into our living room and the internet is more stable, then your prediction will happen.

What do you base that on? We've had Comcast internet for at least 15 years, and we had DirecTV or Dish Network satellite TV for almost as long. I'm just one data point, but we lost satellite at least as often as internet connectivity.

I agree with REW, cable and satellite TV have an uphill battle on their hands as far as I can tell. Streaming infrastructure and service costs are much lower than cable and satellite, so they can undercut cable and satellite to death.

But I wonder what the next wrinkle will be? It seems like content providers may be positioning themselves to provide streaming themselves cutting out not only cable/satellite but streaming packages (PS Vue, DirecTV Now, Hulu Live, YouTube TV, Sling) too. Stay tuned?

 

[REWahoo]

Possibly, and eventually. Except cable based internet has a better thru-put for streaming than DSL, (unless the a fiber optic line runs right into your house and not just to the box in the back yard). and Satellite reception is more stable than internet. When we all have fiber optics directly into our living room and the internet is more stable, then your prediction will happen.

Fiber optic isn't the only solution. There are ever-improving existing technologies, and others yet to come, which will deliver reliable high speed internet directly into your living room. 5G is the next in line.

In the interim, if all goes as promised, I will have a fiber optic cable running directly into a modem/router in my living room by the end of next month.

 

[timo2]

What do you base that on? We've had Comcast internet for at least 15 years, and we had DirecTV or Dish Network satellite TV for almost as long. I'm just one data point, but we lost satellite at least as often as internet connectivity.

?

I base that on the experiment I performed when CenturyLink came around a few years ago to people that had dropped their land-lines. They wanted us to to pick up their internet service since they had just put fiber optics into the area (but not from their box to the house). So I signed up with them and also kept my cable internet. I then compared the two delivery mechanisms show by show, streaming channel by streaming channel (I'm an INTJ with OCD if your are wondering). Most (85% +/-) of the delivered content was equivalent. What was different was the breadth and warmth of the sound on the shows, and on movies in particular. The DSL sound delivered at my house was skinny and tinny on the 5.1 system I had at the time. Also some of the Netflix movies tiled (pixilated) slightly more on the DSL. When I called and told the CenturyLink help desk my findings, they said they had never heard that before.



I realize this was just at my home, but other studies I recall reading have backed up that the cable modems probably have a little more throughput than the non-fiber optic telephone line from the phone company box in my back yard.

 

[Midpack]

I base that on the experiment I performed when CenturyLink came around a few years ago to people that had dropped their land-lines. They wanted us to to pick up their internet service since they had just put fiber optics into the area (but not from their box to the house). So I signed up with them and also kept my cable internet. I then compared the two delivery mechanisms show by show, streaming channel by streaming channel (I'm an INTJ with OCD if your are wondering). Most (85% +/-) of the delivered content was equivalent. What was different was the breadth and warmth of the sound on the shows, and on movies in particular. The DSL sound delivered at my house was skinny and tinny on the 5.1 system I had at the time. Also some of the Netflix movies tiled (pixilated) slightly more on the DSL. When I called and told the CenturyLink help desk my findings, they said they had never heard that before.



I realize this was just at my home, but other studies I recall reading have backed up that the cable modems probably have a little more throughput than the non-fiber optic telephone line from the phone company box in my back yard.

Sorry, I wasn’t questioning the “thru-put” claim at all, I was questioning your “Satellite reception is more stable than internet” claim. That’s where I’d disagree, at least based on my experience and reading.

 

[SoReady]

Well, I found one of the disadvantages of cord cutting. I went to set up the TV in my DW's office and figured out that the 1st Generation of the Amazon Fire Stick will no longer support Directv Now, thus as soon as it updated the software, it would no longer work. This is fairly annoying since we had almost decided to keep Directv Now instead of SlingTV since the channel line up is similar but with most of the local channels which Sling doesn't have...but now I am rethinking my strategy. Sure, a new Stick is "only" about $30, but with nothing *really* wrong with it, I am annoyed at the planned obsolescence of this technology.

I'm going to order sling and AirTV this week. I have a 1st Gen firestick as well on one of mu older TV's. On the other I believe it is 2nd Gen. I figure I'll order the AirTV and start sling and AirTV on the 2nd Gen to be sure it works. Then replace the other firestick if I'm happy.

I was just looking on Amazon and it looks like the latest Firesticks are ~$50. If you see it somewhere cheaper let me know.

 

[timo2]

Sorry, I wasn’t questioning the “thru-put” claim at all, I was questioning your “Satellite reception is more stable than internet” claim. That’s where I’d disagree, at least based on my experience and reading.

well never mind then . I agree stability will vary from provider to provider plus throw geography in there.

 

[REWahoo]

I was just looking on Amazon and it looks like the latest Firesticks are ~$50. If you see it somewhere cheaper let me know.

If you can hold off for another week or two, odds are Amazon will drop the price again to $34.99 as it did the last week in Nov and the two weeks leading up to Christmas. The lead-up to Superbowl is usually a good time to save some $ on TV related hardware.

 

[Sojourner]

I think both cable and satellite TV are facing the same future as the land line...

https://spacenews.com/directv-owner-att-says-its-done-buying-satellites/

“We’ve launched our last satellite,” John Donovan, CEO of AT&T Communications, said during a presentation to analysts.

Wow... that's fairly big news, although not too surprising considering the rise of streaming TV over the past few years. Makes me wonder just how much longer my DirecTV setup will be viable. Will it be the better pricing, ease of use, and other advantages of streaming that lead me to drop my traditional DirecTV subscription, or will it be AT&T's phase out of the DTV service, or perhaps an unexpected failure of one of the main DTV satellites? I imagine I'll know the answer to all this within 2-3 years at most. My DTV bill has once again crept up to an annoyingly high level, so I might be looking at alternatives much sooner than that if I can't negotiate it down to around $100/month or less.

 

[REWahoo]

My DTV bill has once again crept up to an annoyingly high level, so I might be looking at alternatives much sooner than that if I can't negotiate it down to around $100/month or less.

This might be the bigger issue. Ever increasing costs from content providers with fewer and fewer customers to spread those costs across results in larger price increases which results in fewer and fewer customers, which...you get the picture.

 

[Sojourner]

Sorry, I wasn’t questioning the “thru-put” claim at all, I was questioning your “Satellite reception is more stable than internet” claim. That’s where I’d disagree, at least based on my experience and reading.

I firmly believe that the viewing experience is smoother and better overall from a good satellite source than from even a very high speed Internet source.

When I watch a movie that's been recorded on my DirecTV DVR, it plays back flawlessly, without any skipped frames or hiccups in the video or sound. (Of course, this is assuming there wasn't a big rainstorm happening at the time of the recording.) However, when I watch a movie on Netflix, using the latest Netflix app on a current generation Roku device, I almost always notice video stuttering or other video glitches from time to time. These types of glitches are especially noticeable in scenes where there is a smooth pan from side to side. You can easily see the "jump" happen in these cases, where it looks like two or three frames were skipped. That just doesn't happen when watching video on my DirecTV DVR. I've noticed it on every streaming device I've tried, and with every level of Internet bandwidth, from DSL to high-speed cable to "near fiber" speeds (200 Mbps). I suspect it's something fairly inherent to the video-over-broadband content delivery networks that Netflix and other providers use. This is one of the main reasons I haven't dumped traditional DirecTV service yet.

 

[Midpack]

I firmly believe that the viewing experience is smoother and better overall from a good satellite source than from even a very high speed Internet source.

I don’t doubt your experience, but after many years on Dish satellite, we never noticed any difference at all with PS Vue/Roku and we’ve had PS Vue for a year now with only a 25 Mbps internet connection. It may well be that my eyes just aren’t what they used to be, but saving over $500 a year with PS Vue vs Dish, I would have been willing to accept a slightly diminished picture anyway. Fortunately we haven’t had to accept a lesser picture, or lesser service in any way. We can watch PS Vue on 5 devices vs only 3 with our costly Dish package, and the Vue DVR suits our needs just fine. We don’t miss Dish and haven’t regretted cutting the cord at all. YMMV

 

[Cobra9777]

My 84 year-old DMIL just cut the cord (with my help). Here's the before and after:

BEFORE:
Cable internet (200/20)
Cable TV (175 channels plus a Tivo, no premium channels)
Digital home phone service
Modem rental and STB rental for one TV
Total $225/mo

I called on her behalf and negotiated it down to $187/mo but that was just for a year, after which it would go up again.

I then bought her a Fire TV stick, mainly just as a way for her to watch Netflix other than the pathetic app on her Tivo box. The Fire TV stick was set up with my Prime account and she started watching all kinds of movies, original shows, old PBS documentaries, and even YouTube.

But she still needed cable TV for the major networks and a few cable channels she likes. So as a test, I also installed PS Vue on the Fire TV and logged on using our credentials. She loved it. After a week or so, I set up her own PS Vue account, canceled cable TV, returned all the hardware, and now this is her set-up:

AFTER:
Cable internet (200/20)
Digital home phone service (she has a special caption phone for hearing impaired which requires this)
Bought a cable modem on Amazon for $50. So no more rental fees.
Total $70/mo for internet and phone (including all tax/fees)

She uses our Netflix, Prime, and PBS Passport. But has her own PS Vue account, which is $50/mo with tax/fees.

Grand total is $120/mo vs $187-225 with the cable company.

I also bought her the new Fire TV remote with power/volume buttons. So she just uses that one small remote for everything and never needs to switch inputs or any other (for her) confusing things. Previously, she had a pile of remotes and could never remember which one to use for what. From the Fire TV home screen, she knows exactly how to access all her programs.