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Old 08-19-2013, 07:37 PM   #161
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Isn't Wellesly passively managed too since I do not need to tell them where to invest ?
No. Wellesley is actively managed since the fund managers subjectively pick the stocks and bonds in the portfolio. Passively managed means that the stocks and/or bonds are picked to mirror an index, e.g the S&P 500. In neither case is any input about the fund's investments required from you.

Just to put your mind at ease a bit - didn't you tell us in another thread that your statements showed varying prices for your broker-purchased CD's, with the price sometimes above or below your purchase price, depending upon the movement in market interest rates? These are the prices you would receive if you sold before maturity, so you have unrealized gains and losses in those instruments, as well.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:00 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I don't understand why the OP won't simply answer this question.

What was the date and NAV paid for Wellesley? It's not complicated.


-ERD50

Can I play this game?

I bought pssst Wellesley (investor shares) on 08/09/13. The share price was $25.08.

OK, OP, you want to take a turn?
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:21 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I don't understand why the OP won't simply answer this question.

What was the date and NAV paid for Wellesley? It's not complicated.


-ERD50
In obgyn's mind, this may be private information. In fact, the NAV is publicly available information and does not threaten his privacy. Or perhaps he is unaware how to find this information.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #164
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Not sure where to look and get that share price on Vanguard site. I will see tomorrow if I can find this information from past statements or online but again, I am not feeling comfortable sharing more information than I have already shared. All the data I have shared so far is accurate to the best of my knowledge. Not sure whether Wellesley (investor shares) which you bought and Vanguard Wellesley Income Fund Admiral Shares (VWIAX, which I bought) are similar.

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Originally Posted by redduck View Post
Can I play this game?

I bought pssst Wellesley (investor shares) on 08/09/13. The share price was $25.08.

OK, OP, you want to take a turn?
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:45 PM   #165
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We put $25,000 into Wellesley investor shares a few months ago, and I can't remember what we paid, but I think maybe $24.79. I couldn't tell you where it is today.

We are getting ready to roll another $25k into Wellesley to get to Admiral level -- if that dang credit union ever gets off its a&& and moves the money. It's been a month now...
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:58 PM   #166
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I didn't.
After reading your responses, I believe you didn't do this to prove equities are bad. Since you've been here a while, I've assumed that you have a basic understanding of asset allocation. As a free piece of advice, regardless of how you choose to invest, you could benefit from reading a basic book on asset allocation. There's ton of information here on books, not to mention the bogleheads site.

And yes, I understand you're busy, but if your going down this path, it might be well worth the time. Plus, I seem to recall that you've spent a lot of time modeling SPIA's and such. I can't imagine that this is any more difficult.

Also, regarding posting performance numbers, in the way you did in the first post, it's useless. I could just as easily pick two dates for Wellesley and say it went up/down by this much. Just go to finance.google.com and enter Wellesley in the search box. On the left-hand side you can get historical prices. (excluding dividends of course).

Of course, as somebody else also mentioned, you could login to your account on Vanguard and check the performance of your investments. Vanguard makes this easy.

I'll also add that many here are also willing to do the calculation for you. This forum is great about that, mostly because it's easy to do and primarily because it's always easier to deal with hard numbers when trying to make point. You don't have to give out any dollar amounts if that's what bothers you, just the day you bought. From that, it's easy to determine the percentage you are up/down. You can then take this and multiply times how much you invested (assuming you only bought once) and you'll know the dollar amount.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:00 AM   #167
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Also, regarding posting performance numbers, in the way you did in the first post, it's useless. I could just as easily pick two dates for Wellesley and say it went up/down by this much. Just go to finance.google.com and enter Wellesley in the search box. On the left-hand side you can get historical prices. (excluding dividends of course).
yahoo's historical prices will adjust for dividends and splits:
VWIAX Historical Prices | Vanguard Wellesley Income Fund Stock - Yahoo! Finance
Quote:
Of course, as somebody else also mentioned, you could login to your account on Vanguard and check the performance of your investments. Vanguard makes this easy.

I'll also add that many here are also willing to do the calculation for you. This forum is great about that, mostly because it's easy to do and primarily because it's always easier to deal with hard numbers when trying to make point. You don't have to give out any dollar amounts if that's what bothers you, just the day you bought. From that, it's easy to determine the percentage you are up/down. You can then take this and multiply times how much you invested (assuming you only bought once) and you'll know the dollar amount.
Yep, it's almost like he's going out of his way to avoid getting an accurate number.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #168
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I accept the challenge. It's been a good idea since it has allowed me to learn the use of the Windows "snagit" application for screen capture.

Please have a look at the graph below. This is the graph I got from Vanguard today. The value of Wellesley was about $10,834 recently (see opening post). As of today, when I hover my mouse over July, it shows $10,787. When looking at my past transactions from the Vanguard website, the week I made the transaction in mid February reads "Fund to Fund In" (it was a transfer from my money market to Wellesley, Bond Index Fund Institutional, Target Retirement 2030 Trust I). The Fund Name is Wellesley Income Fund Adm . There is no mention of any "investors shares".

The price during mid February (2/15, from the statement) was $59.58. I created a thread a few days later about that purchase: Just bought $50,000 worth of Wellesley I was so happy about it, and wanted to share with all my friends here my first step towards being less conservative.

Since then, my 401k plan (including Wellesley, Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond Index Fund Institutional, Target Retirement 2030 Trust I, and money market) has lost more than $4,000 as of today (from the Vanguard website, when choosing "Personal Performance"). The values in money markets accounts have not changed. I have no idea how this can happen. Maybe I got something wrong, not sure.

Capture.- Well - Copy.jpg



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Yep, it's almost like he's going out of his way to avoid getting an accurate number.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:28 PM   #169
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There were 3 or 4 suggestions on how to get an accurate number, and none of them were to post the generic graph. In fact I'm pretty sure I said NOT to use that. And here it is. I give up.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:33 PM   #170
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Thank you. Yes it took me a while, but I still did it. Had some time over lunch.

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Or perhaps he is unaware how to find this information.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:41 PM   #171
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I just inserted the only price (with 2 decimals this time) I could find online, and the exact date from Vanguard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningBum View Post
There were 3 or 4 suggestions on how to get an accurate number, and none of them were to post the generic graph. In fact I'm pretty sure I said NOT to use that. And here it is. I give up.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:58 PM   #172
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So on Wellesley you have done well You bought it in mid February at 59.58. You received ~0.92 in dividends since then and could sell it today for 59.71. more than you invested.

So your value today plus the dividends you have received total 60.63 vs the 59.58 that you invested. And it will likely only get better from here.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:29 PM   #173
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I am simply baffled as to why it has become such an apparently impossible task to determine which of your funds are showing a profit, which are showing a loss, and by how much. I can assure that never once in my dealings with Vanguard have they ever tried to play guessing games with me by hiding the exact value of my investments. According to the link of Yahoo historical prices provided by RunningBum, a $50,000 investment in VWIAX made on February 15 would currently be worth $50,886.31 as of today's close, assuming dividends were reinvested.

On the other hand, $50,000 invested in VBIMX on February 15 would be worth only $48146.55 today.

I'm not sure what "Target Retirement 2030 Trust I" is, but by way of comparison Vanguard's Target Retirement 2030 fund (VTHRX) would have grown from $50,000 to $52743.65 between February 15 and today.

So there is no clear explanation of why your 401k is supposedly down more than $4,000 since February 15. You would have literally had to pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into the bond fund to experience losses of this magnitude, since you needed to lose enough in the bond fund to more than offset strong performances by both Wellesley and the target retirement fund. Either that, or you made ill-timed investments on some other date(s) at much higher prices than were available on Februrary 15.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:39 PM   #174
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I just wish I was able to start a thread and get as many replies as Obgyn does
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:45 AM   #175
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How much did you invest, and what is it worth now?

Done!
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #176
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I just wish I was able to start a thread and get as many replies as Obgyn does
+1

It even made a lurker like me post. Go figure.

As someone else just mentioned, it's baffling that it's so difficult to figure out that I paid this much on date x and today it's worth y. Take the difference and I know how much I made/loss.

Heck, my kids could figure this out years ago, when they were much younger. Instead, we get a thread with a lot of numbers, but no meaning.

I was hoping that someone might learn something from this thread. Well, I guess there was a lesson learned: choose where to respond wisely...
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:03 PM   #177
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It is sort of funny to see everyone straining to help (or chastise) OB, and OB sounding befuddled and confused by it all. Is he trolling? Playing dumb? Truly dumb? Jerking our chains? A multiple personality who is sometimes risk-averse and extremely cautious, but at other times invests invests tens of thousands of dollars without any clue as to what he is doing? So extremely busy smearing paps and delivering babies that he can can't find 10 minutes to comprehend the basics of Vanguard's website? Stubbornly not paying attention?

I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. It does feel like we are caught up in something slightly silly in this thread, though.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:13 PM   #178
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I wish I could get back the time that I have wasted reading this thread.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:58 PM   #179
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It is sort of funny to see everyone straining to help (or chastise) OB, and OB sounding befuddled and confused by it all. Is he trolling? Playing dumb? Truly dumb? Jerking our chains? A multiple personality who is sometimes risk-averse and extremely cautious, but at other times invests invests tens of thousands of dollars without any clue as to what he is doing? So extremely busy smearing paps and delivering babies that he can can't find 10 minutes to comprehend the basics of Vanguard's website? Stubbornly not paying attention?

I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. It does feel like we are caught up in something slightly silly in this thread, though.
+1
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:04 PM   #180
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(A wise comment from our Community Rules, for all of us to ponder):
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Friends don't always agree on everything or even on most things. They can agree to disagree. When that happens, they try to keep their discussions logical and free from name calling and so forth, or more often they just spend their time on other topics. They don't take every opportunity to express their disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, and fan flames. When they are incapable of avoiding this sort of thing, they become much more disruptive than welcome.
At any rate, this thread appears to have outlived its usefulness. Thanks to all those who had constructive comments.

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