Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 10:39 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,375
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
2. Some of the numbers, as others have already mentioned, seem unrealistic in absolute terms. Pre-Medicare healthcare for a couple at only $3K per year? That's the cost of your policy plus actual spending for co-pays, deductibles, otc meds, prescriptions, etc. Possible if you have retiree coverage, but it seems low as an average. It's very low for our situation.
Our health insurance plus other health care costs are almost $6k now--and my husband is still working. I'm planning on $1500/month ($18,000/year) for health (1/3 for DH, 2/3 for me), and that may be optimistic. I'm way overdue for a physical and would love to have it done (and off the record to boot-) in Thailand, but with my husband's conference in italy, I planned a trip there instead this season. Maybe next winter break--although we're supposed to visit people in Florida, and then in the spring we'll want to visit my daughter who's moving to England, which could leave us thailand in the summer, not a first choice :P ...getting complicated! I prefer not to do this wihtout DH, in case the findings are more...interesting...than I expect. Those of us with health problems before getting individual health insurance are in a whole different ballgame...rugby, or perhaps lacrosse
__________________

__________________
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.
astromeria is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 11:01 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,487
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Ty Bernicke says income was not a limiting factor.
but that doesn't make it so!* He references Tacchino and Saltzman: “Obviously, these total average figures may distort the true picture since it is also true that average income levels are lower for the older age group.” (admittedly, they then conclude the contrary, but I am again not convinced.)

Is it not true that:
1) the Census data clearly shows income decreasing ?
2) expenditures are clearly capped by income ?

I am not convinced of Bernicke's conclusion.* It might be correct, but I am not convinced that it is ... and should it be incorrect, it would certainly be a dangerous assumption upon which to base one's retirement planning.

If Bernicke's conclusion is correct, would this not then suggest that Americans are on the whole saving too much money for their retirements?* Don't think you'd find many thinking this true.
__________________

__________________
d is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 11:10 AM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by d
If Bernicke's conclusion is correct, would this not then suggest that Americans are on the whole saving too much money for their retirements?* Don't think you'd find many thinking this true.
My sentiments exactly d.

With this thread discussing Americans oversaving for retirement and another thread discussing boomers needing to work until they are 110 or 120 years old due to lack of retirement savings, it's not easy to come to a conclusion.* *

Perhaps history will show that those who oversaved for retirement oversaved for retirement.* And those that undersaved for retirement undersaved for retirement?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 11:25 AM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,515
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by d
"...since it is also true that average income levels are lower for the older age group.”
That's what I think. The older group spends less because they have lower income.

Audrey
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 11:29 AM   #25
 
Posts: n/a
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

I think what the article is saying is not that all Americans are saving too much for retirement, but those that do save, tend to be on the miser side and save too much. It may even pain them to spend money. - We've all seen people like this!

So - it seems that most Americans don't save anything at all. And those that do save, Save 2 or 3 times more than necessary.

Remember that most all of here run Firecalc with 100% success rates (which is a 'worst case' condition), plan on living way past the Average Lifespan. - And then if the market goes negative one year we'll all probably rachet down our spending - While FireCalc would keep it the same. FireCalc also eats into Principal, and there are a lot of folks here that won't consider touching Principal!- It's no wonder we'll all probably die with a boatload of Moola!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 11:47 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,012
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by d
If Bernicke's conclusion is correct, would this not then suggest that Americans are on the whole saving too much money for their retirements?* Don't think you'd find many thinking this true.
No, I don't think it is suggesting that Americains on the whole are saving too much. *I think it suggests that generally financial planners are over stating the amount of savings required for retirement. *

With that general statement given I frankly don't see my spending going down as I grow older either, but I think that stems from my attitude toward spending. *I think that someone that has an attitude of LBYM is likely to be getting good value for his/her money spent and probably is not paying for services that s/he can do him/her self and not spending on stuff that is unnecessary. *As one gets older some of these things aren't doable any more and the service will have to be purchased and some stuff may become necessary. *However, I can see how travel, entertainment, and even food expenses could go down. *

I also think "Americans on the whole" don't always get good value for money spent, spend money on services they could do themselves and buy unnecessary stuff.* From there it is easy for me to believe that their spending goes down as buying stuff becomes less important to them.
__________________
jdw_fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 11:55 AM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

You retire and want to spend money fixing up the basement or backyard or bonus room or whatever. After you spend it you probably aren't going to do that again.

You buy that Lincoln/Lexus/Mercedes that you always wanted but since you rarely drive anymore the car lasts forever and you don't need to replace it.

You have dreamed of that 3-month European trip or world cruise. Do you really want to do the trip-of-a-lifetime over and over again. Travel plans must diminish with age. My father in his last years never got more than a few miles from home.

In other words every person probably has a few one-time expenses that are made early in a retirement that do not re-occur or do not re-occur often.

The spending reductions (in my opinion) are a natural result of being retired and are a natural result of aging.
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 11:56 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1
That's what I think.* The older group spends less because they have lower income.

Audrey
Bernike went to great length to prove that this is not the case.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 12:34 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
You retire and want to spend money fixing up the basement or backyard or bonus room or whatever. After you spend it you probably aren't going to do that again.

You buy that Lincoln/Lexus/Mercedes that you always wanted but since you rarely drive anymore the car lasts forever and you don't need to replace it.

You have dreamed of that 3-month European trip or world cruise. Do you really want to do the trip-of-a-lifetime over and over again. Travel plans must diminish with age. My father in his last years never got more than a few miles from home.

In other words every person probably has a few one-time expenses that are made early in a retirement that do not re-occur or do not re-occur often.

The spending reductions (in my opinion) are a natural result of being retired and are a natural result of aging.
My personal experience with my mother and father's retirement, my MIL and FIL, and several close friends is that once you have taken your dream trip, bought your dream car, bought your dream home....you tend to not repeat it. Sure some folks travel many months of the year but the ones I know didn't. They took the BIG one and then settled into their daily routine which was cheap because there was not much to buy, no real expensive travel to take and the house was paid for. If you do less, need less, travel less, eat less, and stay around the house most of the time you don't have much need to spend a lot. The older one gets the less active you can be. My mother is blind and cannot walk without assistance. How much $$ do you suppose she spends? Not much.
__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 12:52 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

I know in the case of my grandparents, on my Mom's side, the last time they bought a car was 1985. That summer, Granddad bought a brand-new Silverado, which over the years got passed down to me and I still have it. Granddad ended up passing away in 1990. Grandmom gave up driving in 1999, and gave me her '85 LeSabre, which they had bought in late 1984. So don't be TOO afraid of American cars...they CAN last! :P We finally got rid of that LeSabre in late 2002, and really only because we didn't need it anymore.

On my Dad's side, they had bought a new '94 Taurus in late 1993. Grandmom died in the summer of '94. Granddad finally gave up driving about a year ago, and gave the Taurus to one of the grandkids.

So from what I've seen, at least, people tend to buy cars less often as they get older. Now that I think about it, my Grandma's cousin has a 1989 Coupe DeVille that she's had since like 1992. And before that she had a '79 Volare wagon, which she bought soon before she retired in 1980.
__________________
Andre1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 01:22 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,288
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Well, not a great study.. *but I have seen it in my relatives and friends relatives... *they do spend LESS...

My mom is 86. *She used to travel a LOT.. one year she was gone 26 weeks all over the world. *Today, she said she does not want to go overseas at all.. and mostly takes only day trips with a group now... *so, even if first class, she does not want to go..

She does not drive as much as she used to... if we go somewhere not around her, someone else in the family goes and picks her up..

So, we can all say how we WILL be spending more money the older we get, the reality is most of us will not...

caveat... your mileage may differ than the label
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 02:07 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,487
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Bernike went to great length to prove that this is not the case
Bernike has concluded, but has not proven, that total expenditures will (voluntarily) decrease as we age. Further, should it be true that they have done so in the past, that does not mean that they will do so in the future.

There has been much discussion of how CPI underestimates "personal inflation", particularly for the older among us; Social Security will not likely be as generous going forward as it has been in the past; some private pensions will not materialize; Medicare is on life-support; taxes are likely to increase; capital returns may be less generous going foward; etc. etc. etc.

I have some personal experience as well ... yes, some expenses decrease; but others increase.* In planning for other folks, I might be willing to assume reduced needs; in planning for myself I am not so willing. If there is an error to be made in my planning, I'd rather it be that I am overly conservative than be overly and erroneously confident.

I should be so lucky as to have too much money when I'm 85 ...
__________________
d is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 02:46 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

d:

I say these things somewhat hypocritically, but being lucky, in my book, doesn't mean that you are the richest man in the graveyard. What a lost opportunity.

I think we all need to balance our needs for a secure retirement with the need to get on with it.

If you work and save until you are totally and absolutely secure you just may miss the best parts of your life.
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 03:02 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,487
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

MB:

unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how one looks at it, it is not likely that I'll be the richest man in the graveyard ... just hoping I won't be in the soup-line.*

no question but that balance is needed, the difficulty is to assure that balance is reached.
__________________
d is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 03:19 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

When my Dad was 85, after a long life of hard work, saving, and some good luck in the 80s and 90s bond market, (he brought himself to buy some zeros when Big Paul took over at the Fed) he felt that by his standards and those of his friends he was rich. He received more pleasure out of this than he would have out of a bigger screen on his TV.

When he went to a rather posh "Assisted Living", he found that there were many guys richer than he was. This annoyed him, as much of what the old guys talked about was how rich they were. That was funny; the old women talked about their grandkids and how many cool things they had in their houses, and the old men talked about their grandkids (and great grandkids), and many $$ they had in their portfolios.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 03:35 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,487
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
the old men talked about ... many $$ they had in their portfolios
boys being boys.
__________________
d is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 03:41 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by d
boys being boys.
He who dies with the most toys and $$...................................is still dead.

FIRE is only a race with yourself. You only have to beat the clock that is in your head. When you have enough $$$ you have won. Don't compare yourself to anybody else...that is not FIRE thinking.



__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 04:09 PM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,134
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
When I get to the home I'm gonna be talkin about Big Fish, Wine, Women and Song! - And will still be proud to be a Liberal at age 90! 8)
Better watch yourself, C-T. One of those old wingnuts in the home with you might slip some superglue into your Poligrip....or your Preparation H.

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 04:16 PM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,487
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

BTW, how much is "too much"? I remember my children used to ask me if I had "any extra money" ... still can't fathom what "extra" money is.
__________________
d is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away
Old 05-23-2006, 04:18 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Re: US News Article: Socking Too Much Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by d
BTW, how much is "too much"?* I remember my children used to ask me if I had "any extra money" ... still can't fathom what "extra" money is.
For me, too much is way more than I have or could imagine getting.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Foreign Exchange rates next news topic? dex FIRE and Money 0 04-13-2007 09:28 AM
Where do you get reliable news? uncledrz Other topics 37 10-15-2006 02:13 PM
Nords! - We have good news and bad news!............ Cut-Throat Life after FIRE 16 09-13-2006 02:26 PM
BREAKING NEWS!!!! Dawg52 Other topics 6 10-23-2005 10:47 AM
Are You Rich? CNN news article dex FIRE and Money 5 08-25-2004 11:20 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:39 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.