Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-29-2013, 08:50 AM   #41
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Running Man has been on this site for many years, and he knows a lot about a lot of things. His posts are information rich, and come from his experience in markets, which not everyone has. You are way off base.

Trust the other members to make up their own minds about these more commercial blogs.

For the record, it is my opinion that they are mostly on about the same level as travel flak writing, and many wil disappear with the first lasting bear that comes along. It is wonderful however, that you seem to get so much from MMM.

Ha
It's been fun watching blog evolution. There are so many little blogiverses now that make up the blogosphere, not just the so-called "retirement" ones, where they morphed with the technology from being little passionate stand alone essayish sites to full-service ad-supported destinations with their own moderators, etc., and in many of them, the comments and "guest blogs" do seem to be mostly from folks with their own blogs. I guess that's the business model now. It will be fun to see what happens next.

I agree about Running Man--hi, Running Man !
__________________

__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-29-2013, 09:04 AM   #42
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,418
Nice thing about the blogosphere, there's enough variety for all of us to find some that we like and others we don't.

Nice thing about our forum is the civility among forum members. Let's keep it that way.
__________________

__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:04 AM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MooreBonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running_Man View Post
The make a valid comment on other blogs in order to promote your website is a nice way to make bologna out of SPAM.
While I haven't kept up to date on Nord's activities, I would view his angle to be a little different than the 'typical' blogger, given their household pension and other decent investments that aren't built on a house of cards hope and a dream of getting 8% annual returns and are in ruins at the first hiccup along the way.

However, I do take issue (and try to always point it out when other people start threads on the subject) with MMM's assertion that the 4% is an iron-clad retirement plan for someone retiring in their early 30s, and you don't have any thing to worry about. Even when other people point it out, him and his wife seem to just ignore it, or call such realists "complainypants" without addressing the fact that a 4% SWR isn't (historically) as safe after 30 years, or the fact that it only applies to the US and Canada over the past 120 years, with other countries having (sometimes much) lower SWR.

In one thread where his wife joined in, she tried to claim that the 4% doesn't even require spending down any principal of your portfolio...but when the truth of the 4% SWR research was pointed out to her, she doesn't bother responding or following up.

The fact that the MMM types seem to diss (in his blog posts and comments) whoever brings up realistic concerns strikes me as someone who isn't trying to put forth ideas for discussion and learning, but rather is someone who puts forth a somewhat 'radical' idea to try to stand out (to gain attention), and then rejects any theories or alternative views that might jeopardize that claim, rather than taking an honest, open discussion and academic view towards it.

I realize that blogs can cost money to host/run/etc.....but I tend to favor truth and honesty, rather than what (at times) appears to be a fast-talker who claims to show interest in your well being and freedom but in reality just appears to want your traffic. Having said that, I do think that MMM does raise some very valid points on not falling for the consumption society, and presents some very interesting points on how to live a simple life with occasional splurges...but the people who say they will retire in their 30s with a $300,000 portfolio and $12k budget need a dose of realism when they find out that life can cost more than they realize when the occasional unforeseen black swan strikes.
__________________
Dryer sheets Schmyer sheets
MooreBonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:50 AM   #44
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy View Post
I don't think it will necessarily be that bad/spartan. Most of my fun activities require some initial outlay but are free / near free otherwise. Just think about all the things that have minimal ongoing costs like camping, hiking, reading, surfing, fishing, programming, writing, volunteering, photography, gardening, cooking, origami, running, bird watching, posting on ER.org, etc.

Besides dining out, most of the expensive entertainment options that I would consider are passive activities like going to shows, sports events, museums, cable tv, etc (that are not high on my list).

I do agree though that even budget travel would be hard to do on 15k a year but I guess it's possible if you have a lot of friends / stay at campsites / like to couch surf.
I wonder how much he spends on a date when he takes out the ladies.Oh wait he probably does not date-too expensive-and hookers are not cheap.(well some are)
__________________
gerrym51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 10:12 AM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
However, I do take issue (and try to always point it out when other people start threads on the subject) with MMM's assertion that the 4% is an iron-clad retirement plan for someone retiring in their early 30s, and you don't have any thing to worry about. Even when other people point it out, him and his wife seem to just ignore it, or call such realists "complainypants" without addressing the fact that a 4% SWR isn't (historically) as safe after 30 years, or the fact that it only applies to the US and Canada over the past 120 years, with other countries having (sometimes much) lower SWR.

In one thread where his wife joined in, she tried to claim that the 4% doesn't even require spending down any principal of your portfolio...but when the truth of the 4% SWR research was pointed out to her, she doesn't bother responding or following up.

The fact that the MMM types seem to diss (in his blog posts and comments) whoever brings up realistic concerns strikes me as someone who isn't trying to put forth ideas for discussion and learning, but rather is someone who puts forth a somewhat 'radical' idea to try to stand out (to gain attention), and then rejects any theories or alternative views that might jeopardize that claim, rather than taking an honest, open discussion and academic view towards it.
It is possible that this is just a genuine difference of opinion rather than an attempt at smoke and mirrors. I also think that MMM's schtick envisions people following his pied piping to continue generating income of some kind doing what they feel like doing. It is a different conception of what FI means than straight ER. There is a fair amount of chicanery or glossing over important details in his stuff, but as you say the message of frugality is worthwhile. You will not dissuade many of the younger crowd that follows him that they are not invincible, pretty much no matter what you do.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 10:58 AM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
The guy in the MMM blog is self employed, not retired. He works restoring houses and is a blogger and at some point his wife was working.

This forum is one of the few places on the Internet with realistic numbers about retiring early. Many of the people here are at least in their forties and fifties, and have a clearer understanding of health insurance and deductible costs, especially in the pre-medicare years, how much teenage kids and college cost, how accidents and chronic illnesses that max out your deductible year after year can and do happen, and we understand long term care and medical issue costs we might face before too long.

The MMM blog sells the dream, not the reality. The dream is more attractive and much easier to achieve. The reality would not have a very wide audience.

However, I do agree with much of the simple living messages. I think we get so accustomed to advertising, that sometimes the things marketers push become the new normal and an accepted way of life. Like why did I use expensive, toxic cleaning products all those years when vinegar, baking soda and essential oils are cheaper and safer? Why do I need so many cable channels? Why was I eating fast foods instead of having some simple meals in the freezer? Why don't I walk or ride my bike to the store more often? Those kind of changes have saved us a lot of money and actually made our lives healthier, not deprived in any way.
__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 11:12 AM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
You will not dissuade many of the younger crowd that follows him that they are not invincible, pretty much no matter what you do.
Yep, only time can accomplish that.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 11:15 AM   #48
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
You will not dissuade many of the younger crowd that follows him that they are not invincible, pretty much no matter what you do.
I fondly remember that feeling. Now that I'm in my 40's, my outlook has greatly changed.
__________________
hausfrau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 11:18 AM   #49
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
....You will not dissuade many of the younger crowd that follows him that they are not invincible, pretty much no matter what you do.
Wait, I'm not? This changes everything!
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #50
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by hausfrau View Post
I fondly remember that feeling. Now that I'm in my 40's, my outlook has greatly changed.
i was invincible-until i turned 50
__________________
gerrym51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 12:10 AM   #51
Full time employment: Posting here.
ESRwannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 629
I think retirement is the wrong goal because its very hard to achieve fast enough for me... fast enough being sometime in my mid 40s.

It takes so much money to offset living expenses that if you are willing to work just part-time it will make things so much easier. Also for me I would feel more at ease knowing that I still had some w-2 income coming in.

My goal is early semi-retirement sometime by 45+ (I'm 38 right now). I'd like to pay for half of my living expenses by working and the other half from investments. Ideally I can get subsidized health insurance through the employment as well.
__________________
ESRwannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:07 AM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 1,438
I saw this reference that intrigued me in relation the the original post

".... It's one of the reasons Vile has become something of a patron saint for the Great Recession's legions of accidental bohemians, who work hard while hardly working."

First Listen: Kurt Vile, 'Wakin On A Pretty Daze' : NPR
__________________
"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" Michael O’Neill
timo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 09:13 AM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmrtn View Post
I don't spend much more than 15K so it certainly doable. But I don't have a travel bug like many seem to have.
"If you stay in one place long enough, the world will come to you." - Chinese proverb.
__________________
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 09:18 AM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESRwannabe View Post
My goal is early semi-retirement sometime by 45+ (I'm 38 right now). I'd like to pay for half of my living expenses by working and the other half from investments. Ideally I can get subsidized health insurance through the employment as well.
This seems eminently doable. Nobody who ERs is going to sit around and do nothing all day (okay, maybe for a few months). The key to ER is FI - you can choose to work (or at least, choose your work) without the fear of the average person living paycheck-to-paycheck. As for health insurance, there are hundreds of posts on this board pointing out that this is the biggest concern most FIRE-oriented people have. If your spouse/partner works low-stress job that provides health insurance, then FIRE is much easier to handle (assuming you have the assets for it in the first place).

Everyone has their own plan for FIRE. This board offers a unique opportunity to get feedback from people who have had similar plans and succeeded/failed at them before you get too far down the proverbial road.
__________________
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:05 PM   #55
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066
Old news. Dianne Nahirny was writing about this long before the word 'blog' was in common usage.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 10:09 AM   #56
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
I have thought about starting a blog, since I like to write, have an overinflated sense of my own importance, and an uncanny ability to poke fun at myself.

Then there is the fact that maintaining a blog would be a little too much like work.
Ah, youth....

And Brewer's right, selling the dream is the fun part.
__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 10:29 AM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESRwannabe View Post
I think retirement is the wrong goal because its very hard to achieve fast enough for me... fast enough being sometime in my mid 40s.

It takes so much money to offset living expenses that if you are willing to work just part-time it will make things so much easier. Also for me I would feel more at ease knowing that I still had some w-2 income coming in.

My goal is early semi-retirement sometime by 45+ (I'm 38 right now). I'd like to pay for half of my living expenses by working and the other half from investments. Ideally I can get subsidized health insurance through the employment as well.
Working part-time makes a huge difference. Just netting 10K a year for fifty years would mean 500K less needed in a retirement nest egg. The affordable care act is going to make is more realistic for people to try out part-time work and self employment because of the ability to still qualify for health insurance, plus get the premiums subsidized.
__________________

__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:41 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.