Texas Proud
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- May 16, 2005
- Messages
- 17,266
Hmmmm, did you check Puerto Rico?
Heck, they shouldn't have a congress critter.... not a state...
Hmmmm, did you check Puerto Rico?
I'd be interested in what you consider a "nice check". Since corporations (and foreign governments through corporations), labor unions, the Chamber of Commerce, etc can give unlimited cash to fund campaigns now, unless your check has 6 zeros or more your congressman is laughing at you and your check.
Well, you've uncovered a real interesting fraud case then, cause ole Pedro is claiming he's representing us in the U.S. Congress.Heck, they shouldn't have a congress critter.... not a state...
Well, you've uncovered a real interesting fraud case then, cause ole Pedro is claiming he's representing us in the U.S. Congress.
Darn, I need to mail him another letter and ask for a refund.
friar1610, I can't seem to prepare myself for the changes because if feels very much like the rules under which I willingly paid my taxes are being changed simply because other programs cannot operate within a budget.
I should be entitled to Social Security based on the rules that were in place during the period that I worked and paid in. Not some after-the-fact rules.
Frankly, to the extent possible I'd rather go on a one-time debt binge to convert future unfunded liabilities into pay-as-you-go programs, and then pay that down moving forward. And then -- stop creating programs that establish new future unfunded liabilities.
And who better to help straighten out this Social Security mess, nobody can buy his vote!The rep from PR is a non-voting member of Congress.
The neofederalists want it to go back to that. Thats the way the right to vote was handled when the constitution was written. This changed during the Jacksonian revolution. I have not heard this term used much but describes the attitude well. John Adams (2nd president) is said to have thought that allowing manhood sufferage would be the end of the republic.I didn't know the right to vote was determined by whether you paid any federal income tax.
Uh... exactly which part of "to the extent possible" did you fail to understand?This has the virtue of clarity that is so often lacking in these conversations. Rather than even entertain the notion of cutting a benefit, we'll just go borrow a chunk of money and promise to never, never, never do it again. So much for fiscal responsibility.
The neofederalists want it to go back to that. Thats the way the right to vote was handled when the constitution was written. This changed during the Jacksonian revolution. I have not heard this term used much but describes the attitude well. John Adams (2nd president) is said to have thought that allowing manhood sufferage would be the end of the republic.
Uh... exactly which part of "to the extent possible" did you fail to understand?
That's a lot different than saying everything needs to be immediately converted by borrowing an insane amount of money. But it *is* a direction we should be moving towards. Making future promises based on overly rosy assumptions is killing us over and over again.
Generational accounting is a relatively new method of national accounting for measuring redistribution of lifetime tax burdens across generations from social insurance, including social security and social health insurance. It has been proposed as a better guide to the sustainability of a fiscal policy than budget deficits, which reflect only taxes minus spending in the current year.[1]
Generational accounting goes beyond conventional government budget measures, such the national debt and budget deficits, by accounting for projected lifetime taxes per capita net of transfers, which are not measured in a pay-as-you-go system of social-insurance accounting. The latter includes only current taxes for retirees less current outlays. Uses include projecting future taxes and outlays from different prospective current policies. For example, if a fall in labor-force growth from an earlier fall in the birth rate is projected to increase the proportion of retirees to the labor force, generational accounting might examine different projected changes in taxes or program benefits to finance the change.[2]
Ditto, my sentiments exactly! I have played by the rules, what I signed on for I feel entitled to. Not to have the government change the rules in the middle of the game because they can't balance a budget.
That would be a very important point if it were true. Why do you think the money must be paid back? Or, if it really must be, why not just print up some Treasury notes and send a few bundles of them by messenger over to the safe where the Trust Fund is kept? That doesn't sound too hard.But, at some point Congress must pay the money back to the Trust Fund.
Seems fair really. If they paid 6.75% for the entirey of their working life and the employer paid additionally 1.45%, they are entitled to what that begets them.Sure. And what this means in practice, as you well know, is that young people get to fund the existing system for current and near-term retirees AND fund 100% of their own retirement system. Somehow this seems equitable to today's SS recipients because they paid a payroll tax that averaged 6.7% over the past 45 years.
The sense of entitlement is astounding.
Just as a FYI.... they had a news segment last night on TV about the British budget... the important thing that was said was in their system the budget does NOT come up for a vote.. the Prime Minister and his group has full control over the budget... so, no earmarks, pork, etc. etc. if they do not want it..
Individually people can hide in a crowd and point the finger of blame at everyone else. But collectively, there is no one to blame but ourselves.
Even if someone didn't vote for the system, they benefited from it. They enjoyed the higher government benefits and the lower general taxes it produced.
But maybe, just maybe, it's actually time to man-up and take responsibility for the mess we created over the past several decades and stop demanding full payment on promises we made to ourselves that we collectively never bothered to adequately finance.
At the very least they can admit that they already consumed benefits roughly equal to the taxes they paid...
I don't know about a lot of people, but I vote because it is my civic duty as a citizen of a republic.
Let me accept your argument long enough to ask this question: Just exactly how would "we" go about doing that?
Debatable, very debatable - and I solidly do not agree.
Sure. And what this means in practice, as you well know, is that young people get to fund the existing system for current and near-term retirees AND fund 100% of their own retirement system. Somehow this seems equitable to today's SS recipients because they paid a payroll tax that averaged 6.7% over the past 45 years.
The sense of entitlement is astounding.
40 years ago, a 25 YO starts their career off @ $15,000. Assume straight 3% inflation, and straight 2% real wage increases over the next 40 years to 65 YO.
If you take the 6.2% employee contribution, and the 6.2% employer contribution (true these were lower and higher some years)
Higher? It's never been higher than 6.2% each:
http://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/t2a3.pdf
40 years ago the SS contribution rate (minus Medicare) was a total of 8.4% (4.2% each) compared to the 6.2%/12.4% of today.
Also in 1970, the tax cap was at $7,800, barely half of the $15,000 you assumed was the entry-level salary.
Come again? It's the *young* voters who are supporting the "kick the can" candidates where it comes to SS?I will be fine kicking the can down the road. If the young folks vote politicians in that allow that, that's their issue.
That is not how it works. Both employee and employer pay at the same rate, on the same amount of earnings.Seems fair really. If they paid 6.75% for the entirey of their working life and the employer paid additionally 1.45%, they are entitled to what that begets them.
This is a defective premise, unless you can say just how many future generations there will be. For if the next generation doesn't care to pay the appropriate level of taxation, they can put it off on the generation after that, who, if they choose can put it off yet another generation, and so on, ad infinitum.If over the course of our lifetime our government runs up a huge amount of debt (spending > than taxes) AND we require future generations to pay a higher level of taxation than we paid to fund benefits we promised ourselves, ...