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Old 10-18-2016, 08:08 PM   #41
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They (turbochargers) are a "new thing" to the average car buyer
New?
LOL.

I drove a Renault 5 Turbo in 1982 back in Europe.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:20 PM   #42
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New?
LOL.

I drove a Renault 5 Turbo in 1982 back in Europe.
You must not be average then!

Turbos have been around for a long time, in many places except for the average U.S. car buyer.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:32 PM   #43
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Timing is important. I know there are perceptions out there about buying at the end of the month, after Thanksgiving, when it is snowing, etc. etc. but I am not sure any one rule works all the time. Other than maybe when the new models are on the lot and they still have old models left.

What I do know is that after deciding on two different make/models we basically waited until the time was right and saved a lot of money. Not being picky about color/features has worked well in the past too.

I've always been able to be under Edmond TMV and TrueCar's pricing range, but it has also meant driving a few hundred miles away to get it too. Never have figured out why local dealerships won't deal much and I can save thousands a few hundred miles away, granted in larger cities.

Just don't do what we have done...new car last winter and already have 32k miles on it! Let's hope diesel motors are what they are cracked up to be and it won't even sneeze at going at least 300k.
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:12 AM   #44
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However, those older engines were not too demanding on HP/torque as today's higher revving 4 cylinders or the dual turbo BMW V6's monsters. Many of today's 4 cylinder turbocharged cars require premium fuel because of the high compression ratio. My stepdaughter's 2007 Mazda CX-5 is one of those.
Wasn't aware BMW had a dual turbo V-6. What vehicle is that used in?

I am aware of the dual turbo with the inline 6, used, for example, in the 335is.
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:19 AM   #45
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Was it a private sale with a very motivated seller? Hard for me to see a Honda selling for that much of a discount otherwise.
Ziggy - The dealer gave me a great shopping tip (for when I buy another car in 10 years!). The dealer was located in a less desirable suburb of St. Louis, so the salesman said they discounted the car to get people to make the trip. I was happy to take advantage of the "geographic arbitrage."

There's just not much risk in buying a normally aspirated four cylinder Honda with only 22k miles on it. The only potentially wonky part of the car is the AWD, but we're willing to take the risk on that.
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:45 AM   #46
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When it comes to cars, I am a late adopber of newer technologies until I feel it is proven, particularly as I have been buying used. Not willing to take the reliability risk.

Have not considered any vehicles with turbochargers or CVTs to date. CVTs may be OK, though my perception is their reliable life is about 150K miles (would love to hear other's experiences) but since I tow 3000lb and smaller trailers regularly, most CVTs are not rated for that use.

A couple of years ago Subaru started offering CVTs, and their tow ratings dropped, may be telling us something!
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:24 PM   #47
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We have found the sweet spot to be 7 to 10 years old. By then, even Hondas and Toyotas have changed to the "new" and "improved" (visibly different) model on everything they produce. So when we looked in '07 for a Honda CRV, the "zoomy" new model was about $25K IIRC. But the "boxy" one (the '99) was $7K with less than 100K on the odometer. We still drive it and don't care when DW scrapes the side of the garage and leaves paint on it. Most everything still works, but since it has few electronics (no GPS, no back-up cam, etc.) very few things can "break" on it. We put about 8K or less on it/year, so it could last us another 5 years or more if nothing drastic happens. Oh, and we dropped collision/comp because one fender bender and it's totaled anyway. It really can't depreciate anymore as long as it runs. It's all a crap shoot, but at least if you lose, it's a smaller anti to get in. YMMV
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Old 10-19-2016, 11:11 PM   #48
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Mine's white just like the photo but a 2001. Turbo charger working great.
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:51 AM   #49
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Wasn't aware BMW had a dual turbo V-6. What vehicle is that used in?

I am aware of the dual turbo with the inline 6, used, for example, in the 335is.
my boss has a new 3 series that I'm pretty sure has a twin turbo - sad thing is my forester is faster
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:52 AM   #50
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You must not be average then!

Turbos have been around for a long time, in many places except for the average U.S. car buyer.
I think those older turbos hold up due to the relatively low boost that they are pushing, maybe 5-7 psi? I run 19 in mine. Thinking about a bigger tmic and header so I can go 25psi or so on e85
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:02 AM   #51
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I think those older turbos hold up due to the relatively low boost that they are pushing, maybe 5-7 psi? I run 19 in mine. Thinking about a bigger tmic and header so I can go 25psi or so on e85
Could be, I don't know how much boost mine provides. But if I remember to do it, I can find out and report back.

I have one of those bluetooth dongles that plugs in the OBDII port, and an app ("DASH") on my tablet that provides all sorts of real time data on the engine in addition to any failure codes, and I was looking at the boost pressure last time I used it, but I don't recall the numbers.

What driving condition would you expect max boost? Flat out acceleration from a stop, after enough time for the turbo to spin up?

I'll try to get it to record it to a file so I don't need to try to monitor it while driving.

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Old 10-20-2016, 10:20 AM   #52
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Could be, I don't know how much boost mine provides. But if I remember to do it, I can find out and report back.

I have one of those bluetooth dongles that plugs in the OBDII port, and an app ("DASH") on my tablet that provides all sorts of real time data on the engine in addition to any failure codes, and I was looking at the boost pressure last time I used it, but I don't recall the numbers.

What driving condition would you expect max boost? Flat out acceleration from a stop, after enough time for the turbo to spin up?

I'll try to get it to record it to a file so I don't need to try to monitor it while driving.

-ERD50
depends on the tune - max boost is usually 4k rpms I think.

yes, if you run a log you can check max psi
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:14 PM   #53
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I think those older turbos hold up due to the relatively low boost that they are pushing, maybe 5-7 psi? I run 19 in mine. Thinking about a bigger tmic and header so I can go 25psi or so on e85

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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Could be, I don't know how much boost mine provides. But if I remember to do it, I can find out and report back.

I have one of those bluetooth dongles that plugs in the OBDII port, and an app ("DASH") on my tablet that provides all sorts of real time data on the engine in addition to any failure codes, and I was looking at the boost pressure last time I used it, but I don't recall the numbers.

What driving condition would you expect max boost? Flat out acceleration from a stop, after enough time for the turbo to spin up?

I'll try to get it to record it to a file so I don't need to try to monitor it while driving.

-ERD50
Yes, I tried cranking ti up, within limits of traffic and the law, and I got 5.9 psi on one try, and 6.2 and 7.6 (holding it in 2nd gear) on two others. The app might not catch the peak though, and I couldn't safely/legally spend more than few seconds all out.

But I'm sure it would go no where near 19.

I drive fairly conservatively most of the time. My poor old 16 year old S-40 probably didn't know what to make of this abuse!

-ERD50
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:16 PM   #54
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I didn't think they ran that much boost. On my e85 map I go over 20psi at WOT.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:49 PM   #55
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Yes, I tried cranking ti up, within limits of traffic and the law, and I got 5.9 psi on one try, and 6.2 and 7.6 (holding it in 2nd gear) on two others. The app might not catch the peak though, and I couldn't safely/legally spend more than few seconds all out.

But I'm sure it would go no where near 19.

I drive fairly conservatively most of the time. My poor old 16 year old S-40 probably didn't know what to make of this abuse!

-ERD50
How do you accurately measure turbo boost with an electronic device when most boost gauges are indicating pressure within the turbo intake tubing? Is it some kind of electronic interpolation?

On my turbo diesel, I have a pipe tap in the plumbing to the intake where a pressure gauge is installed. I also have a boost valve that limits my boost to 18 PSI to protect the turbo and in the event of overboost condition. Of course this is on a tuned turbo diesel and it's running a variable vane turbo with no wastegate.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:13 PM   #56
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my cobb AP can measure boost
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:38 PM   #57
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How do you accurately measure turbo boost with an electronic device when most boost gauges are indicating pressure within the turbo intake tubing? Is it some kind of electronic interpolation?

On my turbo diesel, I have a pipe tap in the plumbing to the intake where a pressure gauge is installed. I also have a boost valve that limits my boost to 18 PSI to protect the turbo and in the event of overboost condition. Of course this is on a tuned turbo diesel and it's running a variable vane turbo with no wastegate.
It is just something reported back through the ODB2 port. I use a bluetooth dongle and the "Dash" app on my tablet, and it does the magic.

I have no idea if it is accurate, but since I'm not getting any ODB2 fault codes, and it runs well, I think it's probably right.

Tends to run ~ -10 PSI when I'm decelerating. Not sure what it was at idle, maybe -4? Do those numbers make sense?

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Dia...ct_top?ie=UTF8

-ERD50
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:45 PM   #58
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It is just something reported back through the ODB2 port. I use a bluetooth dongle and the "Dash" app on my tablet, and it does the magic.

I have no idea if it is accurate, but since I'm not getting any ODB2 fault codes, and it runs well, I think it's probably right.

Tends to run ~ -10 PSI when I'm decelerating. Not sure what it was at idle, maybe -4? Do those numbers make sense?

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Dia...ct_top?ie=UTF8

-ERD50
Unless the engine control system has some way to measure boost pressure (with a sensor) and covert it to an electrical signal, it's probably being estimated. Usually, at idle, most turbos aren't operating in boost mode at all. I don't know what those numbers represent.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:45 PM   #59
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those are vacuum mode numbers. no biggie.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:11 PM   #60
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Unless the engine control system has some way to measure boost pressure (with a sensor) and covert it to an electrical signal, it's probably being estimated. Usually, at idle, most turbos aren't operating in boost mode at all. I don't know what those numbers represent.
I don't know. It could be calculated. But I would think the engine control system would need to know manifold pressure/vacuum. So maybe there is a sensor?

In the quick search I did between innings, I didn't find anything.

Go Cubbies (grand Slam - yeaaaahhhhhh!) 7-0 bottom of the 3rd

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