Vanguard Advisors

Midpack

Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
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Location
NC
I'm a DIY investor so I don't want/expect much 'advice.' My previous reps never had answers, they always had to get back to me, but they always got back to me and sometimes their 'advice' was useful. My current rep is completely useless, and will only talk via phone - even though I've asked him to use email.

I'm adding bond funds to my taxable account for the first time, always had enough room in deferred accounts to avoid it until now (equities just too high). So I thought I'd ask his recommendation re: Tot Bond Fund vs Intermediate Tax-Exempt or other muni funds. He parroted back what I told him with zero insight!

IME VG advisors have reached new lows, but maybe it's just the individual. I may demand a new advisor. Or maybe it's their way to push clients into PAS.

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Many posts about this on Bogleheads this past few months. At least they didn't misplace your funds or put someone else's information into your account history, or fail to get back to you when you have questions about your 5 or 10 million dollar account!

Growth comes at a cost. The growing number of people on that forum who report going to FIDO, Schwab, or TDAm is telling (granted, not representative, wholly anecdotal, etc....)
 
I have never found anyone at Vanguard that knew what they were talking about. When they first introduced their PAS under a different name a few years back, I got the pitch from a couple of their FA's. I'm pretty sure I knew more than they did, although they were young and earnest.
 
So I the thought I'd ask his recommendation re: Tot Bond Fund vs Intermediate Tax-Exempt or other muni funds. He parroted back what I told him with zero insight!
Bond funds are pretty simple I think. For the two choices you listed for a taxable account will depend pretty much on your marginal income tax bracket.
 
Bond funds are pretty simple I think. For the two choices you listed for a taxable account will depend pretty much on your marginal income tax bracket.
We tend to be $10-20K over the 15% bracket.
 
Not surprising, since I think the average person on this forum knows more about investing than 98% of the general population, including many financial advisors. The other 98% probably have much more basic questions than we do. It's kind of like calling a computer support hotline and getting the answer "make sure your computer is plugged in, then try rebooting". It would be worthless advice for me, since I'm a sophisticated computer user, but I bet it would solve the problem for 80% of callers.
 
We tend to be $10-20K over the 15% bracket.

Some folks over the 15% tax bracket pay a 30% marginal rate. If that's you, then tax-exempt bonds are fine. Otherwise if you are in the 25% marginal income tax bracket, you can use total bond.

As you may know, I'm only buying short-term corporate bond index fund because I want to shift my average duration to a short term. So I recommend VCSH or VSCSX. The lower yield from shorter term bonds will have lower tax consequences and you may be able to tax-loss harvest.

But the reality is it probably won't matter what you choose to do.

Bond yield comparison calculator: https://files.thefinancebuff.com/calculators/Bond-Funds-Yield-Calculator.html
(found this while reading the bogleheads.org wiki)
 
Some folks over the 15% tax bracket pay a 30% marginal rate. If that's you, then tax-exempt bonds are fine. Otherwise if you are in the 25% marginal income tax bracket, you can use total bond.

As you may know, I'm only buying short-term corporate bond index fund because I want to shift my average duration to a short term. So I recommend VCSH or VSCSX. The lower yield from shorter term bonds will have lower tax consequences and you may be able to tax-loss harvest.

But the reality is it probably won't matter what you choose to do.

Bond yield comparison calculator: https://files.thefinancebuff.com/calculators/Bond-Funds-Yield-Calculator.html
(found this while reading the bogleheads.org wiki)
Thanks, that led me to this which is helpful https://personal.vanguard.com/us/fu...dId1=0&FundId2=&FederalTaxBracket=0#form#form
 
Do you have an advisor, or a flagship representative? Are you paying the 0.3%?
 
Do you have an advisor, or a flagship representative? Are you paying the 0.3%?
I have a Flagship rep, I am not paying a fee.

FWIW I had all our assets with Fido until 2005. They were more than happy to provide basic advice without any additional fees, although the quality of the advice varied by individual.
 
I am Flagship and out of curiosity asked for a financial plan back when they were supposed to be included. I expected them to wrap the info I provided into a glossy boilerplate plan but I didn't get a plan at all - just talk. The adviser was nice enough but seemed to know less than me. I was underwhelmed. No way I would pay the fee for a personal advisor but it might be worthwhile for someone who is anxious, not knowledgeable and is just looking for a decent couch potato AA. I suspect the paid advisors do have some glossy, boilerplate plans that they can wrap you particulars into once they get an idea of your needs and risk profile.
 
I am Flagship and out of curiosity asked for a financial plan back when they were supposed to be included. I expected them to wrap the info I provided into a glossy boilerplate plan but I didn't get a plan at all - just talk. The adviser was nice enough but seemed to know less than me. I was underwhelmed. No way I would pay the fee for a personal advisor but it might be worthwhile for someone who is anxious, not knowledgeable and is just looking for a decent couch potato AA. I suspect the paid advisors do have some glossy, boilerplate plans that they can wrap you particulars into once they get an idea of your needs and risk profile.
That's odd. I'm Flagship and I got a 20 page financial plan for free just a few months ago, December.

It is the same stock plan they've always offered (with occasional recommendation updates), it's not really tailored to any individual. You set the AA with their guidance if needed, and they recommend what assets to hold to fill out your portfolio accordingly. They analyze your current holdings in full detail along with all the safe mainstream investing tenets, and show you how to map into their choices if you wish - they tell you exactly which assets to sell and which assets they'd recommend you buy. It's a worthwhile exercise for free, but it's not revolutionary or truly unique to the client.

And the discussion has been the most valuable part of the exercise IME, more than the boilplate document.
 
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That's odd. I'm Flagship and I got a 20 page financial plan for free just a few months ago, December.

It is the same stock plan they've always offered (with occasional recommendation updates), but they analyze your current holdings in full detail with all the mainstream investing tenets, and show you how to map into their choices if you wish - they tell you exactly which assets to sell and which assets they'd recommend you buy.
That's very odd. I expected just the sort of generic plan you got. I asked for the plan and got nothing but a little talk.
 
Has anyone looked at the Financial Engines tool available through the VG site?
It gives very specific analysis & advice- which may or not be good advice-but nevertheless is interesting.
I've always wondered why they offer this for free when (it could be argued) it competes with their fee-based offering.
 
Has anyone looked at the Financial Engines tool available through the VG site?
It gives very specific analysis & advice- which may or not be good advice-but nevertheless is interesting.
I've always wondered why they offer this for free when (it could be argued) it competes with their fee-based offering.
I just tried it and was underwhelmed. It transferred most of my accounts from VG including outside investments I track there. It didn't transfer the data from our joint taxable account so I added that in manually. I couldn't see any way to make the planning engine understand that I am not single - for tax or for account holding so I just let it assume all the accounts were mine. Retiring at age 69 (coming up this summer) it advised me that I could go with over 6%/year and told me to expect up to a 12% crash in the next decade.

I have heard a lot of good things about this planner so I am guessing I didn't see how to tune it. Or maybe the VG free version is crippled.
 
Our son would be an excellent candidate for a VG plan. That is what I'd advise him when he inherits.

Let's face it, for most of us experienced investors here we are our best planners.
 
That's very odd. I expected just the sort of generic plan you got. I asked for the plan and got nothing but a little talk.

Don, me too. Same as you. All talk, no writing.
 
We get a free plan every year, by asking. The "cost" is the low key pitch to buy the management service. Not interested at this time. However, when/if I am smart enough to see impairment on my DW's part and my own, I can imagine buying it just to keep our hands off the wheel.
 
Midpack,

Have you looked around to see if any brokerage firms offer a muni bond fund that is specific to Illinois? If so you would save both federal and state taxes, which I would have to assume would be better than putting Total Bond Fund into a taxable account.

If you can't find a state specific fund, look up the percentage of bonds that are based in Illinois, as you can still deduct that percentage from your state taxes.
 
I just tried it and was underwhelmed. It transferred most of my accounts from VG including outside investments I track there. It didn't transfer the data from our joint taxable account so I added that in manually. I couldn't see any way to make the planning engine understand that I am not single - for tax or for account holding so I just let it assume all the accounts were mine. Retiring at age 69 (coming up this summer) it advised me that I could go with over 6%/year and told me to expect up to a 12% crash in the next decade.

I have heard a lot of good things about this planner so I am guessing I didn't see how to tune it. Or maybe the VG free version is crippled.

My understanding is that FE retirement income assumption is based on putting everything into an annuity indexed for inflation at retirement. That could explain the rosy 6% spending rate.
 
Has anyone looked at the Financial Engines tool available through the VG site?
It gives very specific analysis & advice- which may or not be good advice-but nevertheless is interesting.
I've always wondered why they offer this for free when (it could be argued) it competes with their fee-based offering.
I was curious, so I just took a run at FE. Unfortunately it said one of my VG holdings no longer existed, though it certainly does. And it showed a non-VG holding that I haven't owned in about 10 years :confused: The rest of it looked about right, but I quit before proceeding since it couldn't get my assets right to start with. Hopefully it works correctly for others, but glitchy for me...
 
Midpack,

Have you looked around to see if any brokerage firms offer a muni bond fund that is specific to Illinois? If so you would save both federal and state taxes, which I would have to assume would be better than putting Total Bond Fund into a taxable account.

If you can't find a state specific fund, look up the percentage of bonds that are based in Illinois, as you can still deduct that percentage from your state taxes.

This is kind of funny. Illinois is such a basket case, who would want to buy their debt? Even an Illinois resident would do well to avoid those bonds.

Back on topic, Vanguard has had awful service and mostly non-existent useful tools for several years now. Virtually all our money is with FIDO, and if you engage with them and start digging, you will find loads of great advice and unmatched online tools.

In the last several weeks, I did a portfolio review that resulted in a switch from two under-performing mutual funds (one a FIDO fund no less) into different assets. A home run. Also, a review of our estate plan with suggestions for changes (gratis, and the discussion was certainly valuable). Finally, a review of some life insurance policies held in an old irrevocable trust. All free.

I have barely scratched the surface on the webinars, online tools, etc. they make available.
 
Have used Financial Engine tool on VG site for past few years and have compared results to more complex analyses run by my fee-only CFP. Give them a plus in that details on most of the assumptions made are available. If you dig you can even find a Monte Carlo simulation, but it only predicts up to retirement date. While it tracks my VG 401k accounts, I have to manually update non-VG accounts. Overall, think VG tool is a little bit too optimistic. Main reason IMO is that for purposes of the simulation they convert your funds to an annuity at retirement using historic long-term rates. That said, all the tools I'm using (including as of yesterday FireCalc) point to the same general outcome - I'm at a good place (>95% success) to RE in the next few years.
 
My understanding is that FE retirement income assumption is based on putting everything into an annuity indexed for inflation at retirement. That could explain the rosy 6% spending rate.

I just tried it and was underwhelmed. It transferred most of my accounts from VG including outside investments I track there. It didn't transfer the data from our joint taxable account so I added that in manually. I couldn't see any way to make the planning engine understand that I am not single - for tax or for account holding so I just let it assume all the accounts were mine. Retiring at age 69 (coming up this summer) it advised me that I could go with over 6%/year and told me to expect up to a 12% crash in the next decade.

I have heard a lot of good things about this planner so I am guessing I didn't see how to tune it. Or maybe the VG free version is crippled.

I don't think you are correct about them using annuities to project results.
This from their site:

Investment Analysis Methods: Any forecasts presented are not a guarantee of future results, but only reasonable estimates. Forecasts are based upon information about you and your current accounts and investments that we know about, estimated annual savings amount and forward-looking models of the economy and securities markets that utilize data such as historical returns, historical correlations, expected growth rates, and calculated risk premiums. Since past performance is not an accurate predictor of the future and reliance on historical and current data necessarily involves inherent limitations, you must understand that the estimates are only a tool to be used in evaluating your retirement portfolio. Forecast amounts are in today's dollars, which means that they have been adjusted for inflation.

Forecasts are created by generating thousands of hypothetical future economic scenarios to evaluate how an investment portfolio might perform under a variety of circumstances, including changing interest rates, inflation, and market conditions.

...and

About Your Retirement Forecasts:

To show your forecasts, we take the 5th, 50th, and 95th percentiles of thousands of hypothetical future economic scenarios. There is a 50% chance that you will have at least the "average market performance" forecast. There is a 5 % chance that you will have the "poor market performance" forecast or less, and a 5% chance that you will have the "excellent market performance" forecast or more. Charts or graphs may not be drawn to scale.

Unless otherwise specified, the forecasts assume your current retirement decisions. If a forecast specifies that it is for your new plan, it assumes that you implement all your new retirement decisions as shown on your "Review Plan."
Forecasting Risk Over Time: If you hold a fund whose investment objective includes reducing risk over time (typically referred to as "target date funds"), we model its declining risk according to its stated timeframe. For other investments, we assume you maintain a constant investment mix through time; it may be appropriate for you to reduce your investment risk as you approach retirement, but the service cannot predict your future decisions and therefore assumes a constant mix of those investments. In general, if you hold any investments that cannot be reallocated by you, we model those investments on a "buy and hold" basis, rather than assuming that you will adjust their proportions over time.




donheff, don't know why you're having those problems; for me they import everything from VG per registration. And my profile shows us married & our respective ages. I guess I set up the profile some time ago, & they save/update it.


I too am a bit skeptical about the income/withdrawal rate, also about 6%. Think we'll stick with the current 1.2%, or less when we start SS in a year or so.
 
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OK I bit, and ran the Financial Engines tool at VG. Surprising result was only minor tweaks to my allocation in the Wells, reductions in VHCOX, and increases in Total Stock Int by a whopping 13%. Overall the funds held were maintained, just rebalanced with most having active management.

I had to lie and tell it I was still w$Rk(*(g, forcing it to age 63 retirement. I have to admit I was expecting some major changes toward more indexed funds. It projected our spending about 2X what I entered as desired.
 
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