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vanguard fees
Old 04-17-2009, 10:31 AM   #1
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vanguard fees

Vanguard charges $8 for a purchase and $8 for a sell no matter how many trades you do in the same security in the same day. So 5 ins and 5 outs you pay $16 for the day in Flagship.

Next month they are going to an $8 fee for every trade no matter how many times you trade the same security in the same day. So in the case above the fees would be $80, that's a huge increase. Not that trading the same security 5 times in the same day is normal but it's an example.

If you're with Vanguard please call and let your rep know you're not happy with this increase in fees.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:36 AM   #2
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I'm confused. Five "ins" and five "outs" in one day for the same security? Is this manic daytrading?

Frankly, if this is driving up Vanguard's costs for the vast majority of folks who aren't doing this, and if it helps to keep costs down for that majority, I think it's a good move.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:41 AM   #3
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If this confuses you then reread what I said. I said it's not normal but an example of how fees are being raised.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:59 AM   #4
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Why not move your trading portfolio to WellsTrade where as long as you have accounts to the value of $25k you get 100 free trades every year?
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:02 AM   #5
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If this confuses you then reread what I said. I said it's not normal but an example of how fees are being raised.
I understand that. But the example you cited is a clear example of a potential abuse of the "flat rate" for trading a particular security in one trading day that results in higher costs that will ultimately have to be passed on to everyone.

Maybe the exact mechanism for change is heavy-handed, but I do think at least some limit to how much someone can daytrade a particular stock without additional fees is a good idea. Where that line is drawn is open for debate, I guess.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:19 AM   #6
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I don't think this will hurt me unless I move my rebalance from annually to hourly.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:24 AM   #7
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Ziggy, I don't see how you can say that a raise in fees is because of abuse by the client. This has been standard operating with Vanguard and now fees are being raised. If you like to pay higher fees than good for you, I don't.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:29 AM   #8
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Ziggy, I don't see how you can say that a raise in fees is because of abuse by the client. This has been standard operating with Vanguard and now fees are being raised. If you like to pay higher fees than good for you, I don't.
What I am saying is that those who aren't manically daytrading are subsidizing those who are.

And I think most people would benefit from this if it means Vanguard can keep a lid on costs they have to pass on.

And since I don't think I've ever completed two round trips or more on the same stock in one day, I wouldn't be paying higher fees. I would be glad that my fees for the occasional trade won't go up because Vanguard has to pass on the costs incurred by people daytrading at a flat rate.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:41 AM   #9
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Well, since there are many places that have lower trading costs I don't see the logic. I just feel that any time there is an increase of fees we should raise our feelings about it. In your case please don't call them. (heh)
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:44 AM   #10
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Vanguard charges $8 for a purchase and $8 for a sell no matter how many trades you do in the same security in the same day. So 5 ins and 5 outs you pay $16 for the day in Flagship.
I wasn't even aware of this, but it doesn't seem so unreasonable to charge per trade rather than per security with multiple trades.

Vanguard is clearly not the broker of choice for day traders. They have a certain corporate philosophy in which they discourage frequent trading. Their 60 day wait to repurchase mutual funds is an example. I wish they would reduce it to 31 days so as to better serve people who are tax-loss harvesting.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:47 AM   #11
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Well, since there are many places that have lower trading costs I don't see the logic. I just feel that any time there is an increase of fees we should raise our feelings about it. In your case please don't call them. (heh)
Well, that is just one thing among many bad things about Vanguard Brokerage Services. There really is no need whatsoever to use them. Next time you call them it should be to inform that you want to remove all your money from them, close all your accounts, and no longer do business with them. After all, there are better and cheaper places to buy your Vanguard funds and ETFs. If you are all words and no action, what's the point? Apply some action!
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:54 AM   #12
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Well, I think it's good to complain about anykind of Price Incrases by Any Firm..
Just like Having to pay $4 for the NY Times? $2 for the Chicago Tribune?
Or $7 for a Beer at a Ball Park? $6 for a Hot Dog? and .25 cents to use the mens Bathroom? and the price for a Baseball game has gotten so out of hand, it's all but ruined the game for the average guy and his Kids to go to anymore..

And Me thinks Unions are behind all of it..
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:55 AM   #13
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Grep, I don't disagree but think of this. If I was thinking of buying a certain stock and put in a buy at let's say $16 and another one at $15.75 and another at $15.50 for the same day. Now the stock drops and I get hit on all 3 buys my commissions would be 3X as much. This doesn't really mean I'm going to day trade but I'm paying a lot more for the same services.
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:26 PM   #14
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Grep, I don't disagree but think of this. If I was thinking of buying a certain stock and put in a buy at let's say $16 and another one at $15.75 and another at $15.50 for the same day. Now the stock drops and I get hit on all 3 buys my commissions would be 3X as much. This doesn't really mean I'm going to day trade but I'm paying a lot more for the same services.
I see. Are we talking about placing multiple orders that are only executed en masse? If so, there is a certain logic to having a single fee, especially if the orders were at the same price. But if the orders are at different prices, I'd still say a per-trade fee is not unreasonable.

Regardless, Vanguard is an expensive choice for active traders, and there are far better options out there. I do have a complaint about this - I think they should be more competitive in this area. However, I accept it as part of their slightly quirky corporate ideology and structure.
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