Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-07-2010, 01:24 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
OK.... just and an FYI... there is a limit of 25 funds...
Is that a 25 fund limit across all accounts of all types or a 25 fund limit on those you are converting to Admiral? Ie - you can't convert 26 funds to admiral in one master account?
__________________

__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-07-2010, 01:36 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
This is going to confuse Quicken.
That was my thought exactly.

Any takes on how this will affect tax lots? I had some losses on a lot of tax lots before, but now the shares in the new Admiral funds don't correspond 1:1 to the old shares of the investor class. By this I mean that I had, for example, 3000 shares of Pacific fund Investor Class and those were exchanged into 400 shares of Pacific Fund Admiral Class.

My question is can I still designate specific tax lots to sell to generate capital losses. How? Allocate the cost basis of each original tax lot of investor shares to a tax lot of the Admiral shares? In other words, those 50 shares of the Investor class are now the same cost basis as 6.667 shares of Admiral class?

I may have lost out big time on tax loss harvesting potential if I can't designate specific lots now.
__________________

__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 01:38 PM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
That was my thought exactly.

Any takes on how this will affect tax lots? I had some losses on a lot of tax lots before, but now the shares in the new Admiral funds don't correspond 1:1 to the old shares of the investor class. By this I mean that I had, for example, 3000 shares of Pacific fund Investor Class and those were exchanged into 400 shares of Pacific Fund Admiral Class.

My question is can I still designate specific tax lots to sell to generate capital losses. How? Allocate the cost basis of each original tax lot of investor shares to a tax lot of the Admiral shares? In other words, those 50 shares of the Investor class are now the same cost basis as 6.667 shares of Admiral class?

I may have lost out big time on tax loss harvesting potential if I can't designate specific lots now.
From the Vanguard announcement:

Quote:
All cost-basis information from your Investor Shares will be transferred to your Admiral Shares automatically.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 02:35 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
From the Vanguard announcement:
Thanks! The Vanguard statement still doesn't fully answer my question as to whether or how I can carry over the initial tax basis for tax lots. Right now Vanguard lists "various" as the dates of acquisition for all the lots of my funds.

But while reading Vanguard's tax basis accounting information, I noticed that as part of being required to report cost basis info to the IRS, Vanguard is improving their cost basis tracking on their website. They have stated that investors will be able to designate specific lots of mutual funds for sale starting in late 2010.

Quote:
To assist you with these new reporting requirements, we will offer an enhanced cost basis service so you can choose a method suited for your financial situation. This will include the ability to identify specific shares. These services will be available later this year.
from:
http://personal.vanguard.com/us/what...asisaccounting

I have to say, this is great news for my continued relationship with Vanguard. I have done tax loss harvesting exactly once with them. And while not a pain, it wasn't easy since I had to write a letter to explain what I was doing. And wait a few days for the trades to be made.
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 02:42 PM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
Is that a 25 fund limit across all accounts of all types or a 25 fund limit on those you are converting to Admiral? Ie - you can't convert 26 funds to admiral in one master account?

25 funds in an account type... (regular, ROTH, IRA) the problem with me was they lumped all my types together (all accounts linked)..

If you had 13 funds and tried to convert all 13 to Admiral, you would not get to convert that last one without calling them... even though you had 12 funds with ZERO $$$$s....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 02:55 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
25 funds in an account type... (regular, ROTH, IRA) the problem with me was they lumped all my types together (all accounts linked)..

If you had 13 funds and tried to convert all 13 to Admiral, you would not get to convert that last one without calling them... even though you had 12 funds with ZERO $$$$s....
Gotcha. I'm "only" at 19 including a few zero balance funds. I guess I'll have an issue if I add another 7 funds...
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 06:19 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,884
Good news. I still have a few funds @ VG that are under $100k that will be joining us at the adults table soon.

Does anyone dispute that this action is in response to Fido's Spartan low ball ER action? Gotta love competition...
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 07:10 PM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,152
I would advise making sure all of your cost basis information is complete, correct, and entered in before 2011. (Actually, due to the new law, I would advise this for all your holdings, not just Vanguard)

I am actually doing this right now, paying for the fact that Vanguard did not used to track this.

My most difficult one (which I did a couple of year ago), involved the following:

Invested in Emerging Markets mutual fund steadily over a decade
At the beginning reinvested dividends until I knew better
Converted to Admiral class (which has different pricing, share structure)
Converted Admiral class to ETF

Vanguard did not used to provide any cost basis assistance for this and you need to hand enter each tax lot. In fact, I am figuring the same right now for the European and Pacific funds that I have owned for a decade and converted to ETFs in 2008. Last night I entered the information for Vanguard Tax Managed foreign converted to ETF. And for some of these funds, after conversion, there is no electronic history at Vanguard (which I find unbelievable). I have 10 years of paperwork on my desk right now and am almost finished.

Then you need to call them to set how you want your shares sold if you do not want FIFO when selling (brokerage, which is different from your mutual fund setting). You can't do this on the web (as of a month ago). I have mine sent to HIFO. (highest in, first out)

And before this announcement, anything other than FIFO selling for mutual funds was not possible without a phone call each time you want to sell (confirmed this summer via both Vanguard communication and Bogleheads). Maybe that has changed now.

Kramer
__________________
kramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 10:53 PM   #49
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
... paying for the fact that Vanguard did not used to track this.
Vanguard did not used to provide any cost basis assistance for this and you need to hand enter each tax lot.
And for some of these funds, after conversion, there is no electronic history at Vanguard (which I find unbelievable).
Then you need to call them to set how you want your shares sold if you do not want FIFO when selling (brokerage, which is different from your mutual fund setting). You can't do this on the web (as of a month ago).
And before this announcement, anything other than FIFO selling for mutual funds was not possible without a phone call each time you want to sell (confirmed this summer via both Vanguard communication and Bogleheads). Maybe that has changed now.
But other than that, holy cow are their expense ratios cheap!!
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 11:29 PM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
photoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
I would advise making sure all of your cost basis information is complete, correct, and entered in before 2011. (Actually, due to the new law, I would advise this for all your holdings, not just Vanguard)
I went to my account and it looks like I can only enter this information in for brokerage accounts. Is there anyway to record it for mutual funds?
__________________
photoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 03:02 AM   #51
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy View Post
I went to my account and it looks like I can only enter this information in for brokerage accounts. Is there anyway to record it for mutual funds?
No, I don't think so. For more authoritative details, see my post about this on the Bogleheads board:

Bogleheads :: View topic - Vangd Cost Basis Acctg w/External Mutual Funds

Actually, it is worst than FIFO, it appears they use average cost when you sell (I just refreshed my memory from my boglehead post), at least for external mutual funds. It is a really, really bad system and not at all obvious to the casual observer. Supposedly, they will fix it in the next couple of years.

Also, if you use Average cost for a single sale, you are locked into that system forever for that holding. It is the worst possible way to sell a mutual fund you have held over a long period of time and could cost your typical retiree a lot of money.

Kramer
__________________
kramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 02:55 PM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,437
Thanks for the info. It didn't sink in until I realized my DW had 2 eligible accounts. It makes me feel like I've made some money today!
__________________
foxfirev5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 03:15 PM   #53
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,113
Just got around to reading this thread as I've been away for a few weeks.

Thanks for the tip. I just converted 2 funds. I wonder how long it would have taken VG to have told me they were eligible?
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 03:32 PM   #54
Full time employment: Posting here.
CCdaCE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 887
How are automatic investments supposed to work. I assume if you are buying investor shares now, does the auto-invest change to Admiral? Anyone already know?

-CC
__________________
"There's those thinkin' more or less, less is more, but if less is more, how you keepin' score?
It means for every point you make, your level drops. Kinda like you're startin' from the top..." "Society" - Eddie Vedder
CCdaCE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 03:41 PM   #55
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCdaCE View Post
How are automatic investments supposed to work. I assume if you are buying investor shares now, does the auto-invest change to Admiral? Anyone already know?

-CC
I have done conversions in the past and am pretty sure that it is automatic in that you have to do nothing - the monthly bank payments start going into the new Admiral fund you just converted to.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 04:19 PM   #56
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Just got around to reading this thread as I've been away for a few weeks.

Thanks for the tip. I just converted 2 funds. I wonder how long it would have taken VG to have told me they were eligible?
Automatic conversions to Admiral Shares happen once a quarter IIRC. So it could have taken them up to 3 months to make the conversion on your behalf I guess.
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 04:39 PM   #57
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by FD View Post
Automatic conversions to Admiral Shares happen once a quarter IIRC. So it could have taken them up to 3 months to make the conversion on your behalf I guess.
In that case - double thanks to OP for alerting me
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 04:43 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,283
Just as an FYI.... the fix to my 25 accounts was worse than I had expected...

They decided that I needed a ROTH 1 and a ROTH 2... so the one account that I could not convert was moved to my ROTH 2 view...

I called and said this is NOT what I want and they need to get it fixed... had to send me to a specialist who said they would... left me his contact info so if the 'fix' goes bad I can give him a call and we can try again...


This was after trying to send a secure email to them (which did NOT go through because I got a phone call in the middle and got logged out after I came back and spend 15 minutes typing the details etc. of their error)... then called and got into phone entry heck.... just to let you know.... IF you get mad and hit the 0 key three time quickly they will put you through to a person
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2010, 11:13 PM   #59
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: No Where for Very Long
Posts: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
No, I don't think so. For more authoritative details, see my post about this on the Bogleheads board:

Bogleheads :: View topic - Vangd Cost Basis Acctg w/External Mutual Funds

Actually, it is worst than FIFO, it appears they use average cost when you sell (I just refreshed my memory from my boglehead post), at least for external mutual funds. It is a really, really bad system and not at all obvious to the casual observer. Supposedly, they will fix it in the next couple of years.

Also, if you use Average cost for a single sale, you are locked into that system forever for that holding. It is the worst possible way to sell a mutual fund you have held over a long period of time and could cost your typical retiree a lot of money.

Kramer
OK, here is a good system-San Mig Light at Lucky Dog bar is only 40 pisos / bottle. Let Vanguard top that
__________________

Lancelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2010, 03:06 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,884
I converted 3 accounts from investor to Admiral on Friday. saved about $800 annually by doing 5 minutes of "work."

The VG website had already identified which "investor" funds of mine were convertible to Admiral shares. It could not have been an easier effort.
__________________

__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keeps Getting Better, Junk Food Lowers Stress poboy Health and Early Retirement 1 01-30-2008 01:29 AM
Vanguard Windsor Admiral on my plans "Watch List" Dude FIRE and Money 4 02-04-2007 12:03 PM
Converted To Vanguard Admiral ag4gt FIRE and Money 2 05-11-2005 12:15 PM
Vanguard Reducing the Admiral Shares Threshold TromboneAl Other topics 16 05-10-2005 11:41 AM
E*Trade Lowers Fees Austin_Explorer FIRE and Money 13 09-19-2004 03:53 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:35 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.