Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Vanguard website frustration
Old 09-28-2012, 04:29 PM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Valencia
Posts: 121
Vanguard website frustration

I'm a lurker, I rarely post here, but I'm really frustrated with Vanguard and I guess I just want to vent. Some of you might find it interesting.

I have a mixture of stocks and funds in my IRA, handled by Vanguard. 6-7 weeks ago, Vanguard made some upgrades (??) to their website. Since then, I have had many problems, usually with missing money or inaccurate data. Don't get me wrong, the values seem to correct themselves the very next day. For example, if the stock market goes up and my account balance at Vanguard goes down, it kinda piques my interest, silly me. Again, my account would be accurate the next day. I have sent numerous e-mails during the past 6 weeks. At first, the responses were "sorry, we just upgraded our website and we're still working out some problems". Sometimes my e-mails were just ignored. Well, in the past 5 days I've had two significant problems for which I am frustrated.

1. Sunday night, I log in and my account is about $50K short. I investigate and find that I own 5 stocks with no value. On Monday, the 5 stocks are back at full and accurate value. I send an e-mail......

2. Last night, (thurs nite) exceeded all my expectations. I was expecting my Wellesley fund to receive its quarterly dividend. Now, I cannot control "when" they give it to me, but I figure, at the end of the day, there's only two possible outcomes. They give me the dividend (and my balance goes up) or they don't give it to me (and my balance stays the same). I'm ok with either of these possibilities cuz I know I'll get it sometime soon. OK, apparently, Vanguard thought of a new and exciting possible outcome that I had not imagined in my wildest dreams. The third possiblility is that they could REDUCE my Wellesley fund balance by the amount of the dividend. Yes, last night, when I logged on at 9pm California time, my Wellesley fund total value was lowered by the amount of the dividend. So, I send a nasty e-mail. Friday morning, I check in at 9am Cal time and, presto, the Wellesley account is accurate. Today, I called and suggested that their IT department was either lazy or incompetent because apparently they have no idea "how" to handle timing differences and they think it's ok to display innacurate data. (in their defense, the analyst I spoke to agreed with me).

Basically, the end-of-day account balance is often different than my next morning start-of-day balance. As a result, I have a difficult time reconciling my account. I have no evidence that Vanguard has mismanaged (lost) any of my money, but it just frustrates me that I can't reconcile my account. ugh......I'm done venting, thanks, I feel better.
__________________

__________________
*
using an 8.5% withdrawal rate until SS kicks in
*
albundyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-28-2012, 04:48 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,287
I think the problem is the current price.... IOW, your dividend example.... the fund price went down by the amount of dividends they paid... but, the file that they need to run to REINVEST dividends had not yet run.... so, your old holding shares with the new updated price..


I do not see this as a major problem.... but you do...
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 04:49 PM   #3
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,934
Gee - - now, I'm glad that I only log into Vanguard once every month or two. Your experience with balances sounds so annoying. I have never noticed that type of inaccuracies or problems.

I haven't checked yet for my Wellesley dividend. Maybe I'll go do that, just to make sure they didn't forget to give it to me.

Edited to add: All is well, my balance is correct, and it sure looks nice with that dividend added in.

Although I check my portfolio balance every day, I usually do not actually log in unless I want to see recent dividends. Most days I just check the share price for each of my funds and from that derive my balance.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 04:49 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,437
I aways wait until the next day to check my account, usually around 6am. I've never had a problem. Of course I date back to the days when you had to wait until you got a quarterly statement in the mail - even before telephone account services.
__________________
Retired in 2016. Living off dividends / interest and a mini pension. Freedom.
foxfirev5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 04:49 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,378
Relax and don't look at it so often. If this is the worst problem in your life, it's all good.
I'm sure Vanguard is not trying to steal any of your money.
__________________
Work is something you do to get enough $ so you don't have to....Me.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 05:32 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Onward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,667
It's good to hear these reports of problems, though. If it happens to me, I won't be completely shocked.
__________________
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know.
Onward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 05:51 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,461
No problems here that I am aware of. Lucky I guess.
__________________
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 06:57 PM   #8
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by albundyz View Post
I'm a lurker, I rarely post here, but I'm really frustrated with Vanguard and I guess I just want to vent. Some of you might find it interesting.

I have a mixture of stocks and funds in my IRA, handled by Vanguard. 6-7 weeks ago, Vanguard made some upgrades (??) to their website. Since then, I have had many problems, usually with missing money or inaccurate data. Don't get me wrong, the values seem to correct themselves the very next day. For example, if the stock market goes up and my account balance at Vanguard goes down, it kinda piques my interest, silly me. Again, my account would be accurate the next day. I have sent numerous e-mails during the past 6 weeks. At first, the responses were "sorry, we just upgraded our website and we're still working out some problems". Sometimes my e-mails were just ignored. Well, in the past 5 days I've had two significant problems for which I am frustrated.

1. Sunday night, I log in and my account is about $50K short. I investigate and find that I own 5 stocks with no value. On Monday, the 5 stocks are back at full and accurate value. I send an e-mail......

2. Last night, (thurs nite) exceeded all my expectations. I was expecting my Wellesley fund to receive its quarterly dividend. Now, I cannot control "when" they give it to me, but I figure, at the end of the day, there's only two possible outcomes. They give me the dividend (and my balance goes up) or they don't give it to me (and my balance stays the same). I'm ok with either of these possibilities cuz I know I'll get it sometime soon. OK, apparently, Vanguard thought of a new and exciting possible outcome that I had not imagined in my wildest dreams. The third possiblility is that they could REDUCE my Wellesley fund balance by the amount of the dividend. Yes, last night, when I logged on at 9pm California time, my Wellesley fund total value was lowered by the amount of the dividend. So, I send a nasty e-mail. Friday morning, I check in at 9am Cal time and, presto, the Wellesley account is accurate. Today, I called and suggested that their IT department was either lazy or incompetent because apparently they have no idea "how" to handle timing differences and they think it's ok to display innacurate data. (in their defense, the analyst I spoke to agreed with me).

Basically, the end-of-day account balance is often different than my next morning start-of-day balance. As a result, I have a difficult time reconciling my account. I have no evidence that Vanguard has mismanaged (lost) any of my money, but it just frustrates me that I can't reconcile my account. ugh......I'm done venting, thanks, I feel better.
I had the same experience yesterday - it was an up day but Wellesley was down. I went to the website and it did not show any new transaction concerning this decline. I think it's because they have to buy back in after business hours the following day - assuming you are re-investing dividends. So they can't show your new balance until purchase.
__________________
Freed at 49. You only live once - live it
Donzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 07:01 PM   #9
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I think the problem is the current price.... IOW, your dividend example.... the fund price went down by the amount of dividends they paid... but, the file that they need to run to REINVEST dividends had not yet run.... so, your old holding shares with the new updated price..


I do not see this as a major problem.... but you do...
Exactly. I've seen this happen in the past when I used to have the dividends reinvest. No big deal imo.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 07:03 PM   #10
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
On the Wellesley front, I/DW reinvest distributions and the balances (e.g. additional shares) were posted overnight. We don't redirect the distributions to cash or reinvest in other funds.

As far as the VG site (which I use every day) I'll admit that it was a bit "quirky", but with constant use I feel comfortable with it.
__________________
rescueme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 08:37 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,709
At 9:30PM, my fund prices are updated, but balances appear to be lagging. Considering the market closed at 4PM, it's the end of month, and how many transactions are processed and validated after market close, I'm ok with this. There must be billions of calculations each day at Vanguard. I can wait.
__________________
target2019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 08:58 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
easysurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,896
I've had times when the business month ends on a Friday (such as tonight). When I check my balance on end of Friday, it is different than if I check it on a Sunday. This was the old site as I haven't done the checking yet since they moved over the the "updated" site.
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
easysurfer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:41 PM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by albundyz View Post
Today, I called and suggested that their IT department was either lazy or incompetent because apparently they have no idea "how" to handle timing differences and they think it's ok to display innacurate data. (in their defense, the analyst I spoke to agreed with me).
You're buying the best IT support that your expense ratio can afford...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 09:47 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,626
The OP's issues at Vanguard have been typical ever since I have used Vanguard's web site. They really do not arise from the "upgrade", but are routine at Vanguard.

Vanguard is always one day slow with posting dividends and distributions compared to other brokers. But to be fair, Vanguard Brokerage Services and Vanguard Mutual Fund Company are not really brokers in the sense that Fidelity, Schwab, E-trade, Scottrade, TDAmeritrade and WellsFargo are brokers.

As for your shares being valued at zero, ... Please! You know that Vanguard forgot to pay the bill for getting quotes, so the quote place just returns $0.00. You can always look up the share price on another system.

Probably best is to move your money elsewhere. I can recommend WellsFargo/WellTrade where you can hold all your Vanguard stuff for free. You can buy Vanguard Signal share class funds for no commission, Vanguard Admiral share class actively-managed funds for no commission, Vanguard ETFs for no commission, Fidelity Spartan funds for no commission, stocks for no commission, etc. as long as you have the PMA package and enough assets at WF.

Or if you want a cash rebate, go to a broker that is giving cash rebates such as TDAmeritrade.
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 07:48 AM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
I just checked it today, and it's up to date.
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 06:15 PM   #16
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Florida's west coast
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post

Probably best is to move your money elsewhere. .
+1

I moved my money out of Vanguard after years of frustration--I feel Vanguard is set up for people who only invest in their funds. No flexibility and the phone agents were not well trained IMHO.

If you want to have stocks and other company funds, your best bet is to at least have a second brokerage acct.
__________________
sunnysideup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 06:49 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: E. Wash
Posts: 1,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2moreyears View Post
+1

I moved my money out of Vanguard after years of frustration--I feel Vanguard is set up for people who only invest in their funds. No flexibility and the phone agents were not well trained IMHO.

If you want to have stocks and other company funds, your best bet is to at least have a second brokerage acct.
Came to the same conclusion after Fido offered a nice cash incentive to move funds. Vanguard still comfirmed its performance by failing to send Fido the basis--funds were inherited prior to the 2011 cutoff so they technically did not have to. If there is anything I have learned about Vanguard, is that they do very very little they do not have to! Guess that is the path to low expense ratios--customer be damn
Nwsteve
__________________
nwsteve is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 07:21 PM   #18
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
If there is anything I have learned about Vanguard, is that they do very very little they do not have to! Guess that is the path to low expense ratios--customer be damn
Nwsteve
I dare you to go over to Bogleheads and say that .....

(PS: I agree with you)...
__________________
rescueme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 07:42 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,378
You get what you pay for.
__________________
Work is something you do to get enough $ so you don't have to....Me.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 08:59 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
You're buying the best IT support that your expense ratio can afford...
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.