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Old 08-16-2013, 07:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Grammymissy View Post
We are in the research phase, so we will continue researching elsewhere. No worries🌻
Your posts indicate you aren't researching, simply seeking validation and rejecting anything that doesn't support your decision. That does lead to "no worries" - at least until you find out the hard way what's in all that fine print in the 75+ pages of the VA agreement. 🌻
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:12 AM   #22
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Thank you John schanzer for your response, you are a risk taker admitting on this board that you purchased an annunity. I asked a question, of annuity buyers and for some reason I am attacked by a moderator who says that I have already made a decision? Moderator rewahoo please delete this thread since it offends you so, and bless your heart.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:28 AM   #23
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First, if you look at my avatar you'll see the "emeritus" designation - as in "former" mod. Sorry, can't help you with deletion.

Second, if you view my post as an attack you may need to reconsider posting on internet forums. People will disagree with you and hold up a mirror to your posts.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:40 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Grammymissy View Post
Thank you John schanzer for your response, you are a risk taker admitting on this board that you purchased an annunity. I asked a question, of annuity buyers and for some reason I am attacked by a moderator who says that I have already made a decision? Moderator rewahoo please delete this thread since it offends you so, and bless your heart.
I don't think anyone attacked you. I do think you have received a lot of thoughtful advice from folks who considered annuities and decided against the variable annuity. I don't know why their responses would not be helpful. You would find more support for the SPIA but you do not seem to be interested in that, and your reactions do seem to indicate that you want confirmation of a decision you have already made.

Where else have you researched this topic?
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:05 AM   #25
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I don't think anyone attacked you. ....
+1 and if you perceive the posts as attacks, you should probably not be posting to internet forums because this forum is very polite compared to most others.

Most of the input you are receiving are from experienced investors who have at one time considered investing in a VA as you now are but ultimately decided not to or people who currently or previously owned VAs and are not fans of the product.

As for me, I worked in the insurance industry for 25 years including a company that issued VA products and I'm just not a fan.
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Grammymissy View Post
Thank you John schanzer for your response, you are a risk taker admitting on this board that you purchased an annunity. I asked a question, of annuity buyers and for some reason I am attacked by a moderator who says that I have already made a decision? Moderator rewahoo please delete this thread since it offends you so, and bless your heart.
GM, if you do a search of past threads you will see that this questions has been asked dozens of times in the past and what the answers are. I think you are in some respects the victim of forum fatigue with the same question, often posed by people who seem only to be looking for validation of a decision they have already made (not all of them turned out to have made the decision).

I suggest that you get hold of the prospectus and read it. Do you understand what the product is and does (ignoring whateverthe salesman told you)? Have you found all the gotchas in the fine print (and there will be many)? How do the costs of this product compare with reasonable alternatives? What does this product look like on your spreadsheet after 20 years in up, down and flat market scenarios? You would not be ready to make a decision either way without doing all of this, IMO.
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #27
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I have checked into different annuities, after 35 years of investing in mutual funds and doing quite well financially. When the market peaked in 2013 I did not want to worry about losing what I have gained. We transferred 80% of or retirement into a fixed index annuity with Allianz with a 360 rider. Yes the fee is high 1.05% but we are guaranteed to have a great income for the rest of our lives with no fear of loss from the market, plus the income can go up but never down. I have 7 years before I retire and still invest 23% of my income in mutual funds that will be a plus if the market continues up but won’t be a burden if the market goes down.

Wow, I hope you got kissed...
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:44 AM   #28
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Personally, I would be interested in what GM finds out about variable annuities.

The quote below is a reason I would be very careful about purchasing one even after doing due diligence.

Quote:
In a disturbing new trend, though, several annuity companies have begun to make changes to the investment offerings, ostensibly to simply change the lineup of funds being offered, but done in a way that increasingly appears to change the rules of the game for existing annuity holders after the fact. The first shot across the bow came earlier this spring from AXA, who in the process of rotating investment offerings in a 'routine' prospectus change indirectly defaulted a large number of annuity holders into more conservative investments than they may have originally selected (and often into their own affiliate-managed funds to boot). In a more concerning shift, now Hartford has decided to change its investment offerings as well, and actually require policyowners to voluntarily adopt the new investment offerings or lose their annuity guarantees! In other words, a number of contract owners with what were purported to be lifetime guarantees are now renewed to complete a "renewal" process by October 4th or permanently lose their lifetime income protection!
It is from this article: AXA And Hartford Prospectus Changes A Troubling New Trend For Existing Variable Annuities - Kitces | Nerd's Eye View

The ability to change the rules after the contract is made, makes due diligence very difficult, unless one has a very good crystal ball, or a time machine.
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:49 AM   #29
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Not always by any means, but how many times have had an OP who (we come to find) had one "right" answer in mind before posting? It would be a lot easier if they would pose a question, and then provide the answer with explicit instructions for the rest of us.

Or better yet, a poll with only one choice...
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:50 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Grammymissy View Post
Thank you for all of your responses, it is obvious to me that even if someone purchased a variable annuity, they would not admit on this website. And since my question was for someone who has purchased a variable annuity, i will move on. We are in the research phase, so we will continue researching elsewhere. No worries🌻
Okay, I bought one (1998 as I recall). It had a "guarantee" of 3% per year. "Gains" in the stock market were to be added in (at some %) thus creating a new "floor". Here is what happened. By the time all fees were taken out, I got EXACTLY the 3% guarantee for 8 years. By the way, that was not compounded. So, if one put in 100,000, then in 8 years it was worth 132,000. Not a very good return. So, I too would suggest you look at other options if you wish to participate in the market. If you want a "guarantee", there are much cheaper ones out there (SPDAs for instance - not a recommendation, by the way).

On this forum, it doesn't pay to be sensitive to what you might think is criticism. Some folks are better than others at stating their beliefs in a way that "preserves self respect". Others are more blunt. As mentioned in this thread, this subject has been covered (and covered and covered). Some responders to your question are to the point of "short hand" in their answers. Don't take it personally. My belief is that you have been offered good advice if not always in a way that feels very good to hear. You have to do your own research and you have to be certain you understand any policy before you should feel comfortable tying up a chunk of your retirement stash. Naturally, YMMV.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:26 PM   #31
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Koolau thank you for your response, we have still not made a decision on our finances. It is a vanguard variable Annuity that we are still considering. We do have other items we are researching. We are trying to research thoroughly all of our options to make the best decision for us. We do understand that the return is less for an Annuity product and are taking that into consideration. I appreciate your thoughts that others on this board mean well. I have found several other forums that have members not quite so opinionated and quick to pass judgement., and have enjoyed asking my questions of them. I do still read this forum since it does cover so many great topics, with helpful information. Again, I do appreciate your response, and understand why you would not promote the product due to your experience, this is the types of responses I was looking for to help with my decisions.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:40 PM   #32
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Opinionated may mean well informed on a topic. I am not well informed about annuities as I never been even slightly tempted to buy one, especially of the variable variety, so I have no advice or opinion, but I respect the very negative opinions of experienced people on this board. I feel this it is highly unlikely that any time I might spend trying to learn about variable annuities would pay off for me; I just accept what experienced people here have said and related. Once one has been purchased, the calculus changes, and I have never and very likely will never investigate this either.

Some things are not good or bad, depending on who uses them. Some things are just bad, period. For example, it would hard to find anyone whose health would be improved by eating more sugar.That doesn't mean these bad things including sugar eating won't have their fans. A friend who lives in my building loves his Ameriprise rep. How likely is that that this rep is helping this guy?

One reason this board is helpful is that few here are interested in popularity; they like to say what they think. And many here tend to think well about many things having to do with retirement and retirement finance.

Ha
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:09 PM   #33
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FWIW.

Hi!

I did buy a Variable Annuity 3 years ago. See thread titled Annuity Advice for my story.

It's a short one I started last night and I have decided to cancel it, even if it means 5.5% surrender charge.

There is a lot of knowledge on this board. Did not discover this very recently.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:11 PM   #34
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Did not discover this Board till very recently..
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:28 PM   #35
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Erprecy, I did see your posts, and I wish you the best in your decisions, whatever they may be. If following this boards recommendations and canceling your Annunity at a loss to you, is what you think is best, good luck. I noted that you traveled in your early retirement, that is what my husband and I start next month. First 3 months in England and then 3 months in Portugal, hopefully it will be as great as we hope.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:44 PM   #36
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Good luck to you, as well. We are also travelling to Portugal at the end of this month but only for 2 1/2 weeks.
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Old 10-07-2013, 07:46 PM   #37
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I found this article on variable annuities to sum things up very nicely, and in plain English.

9 Reasons You Need To Avoid Variable Annuities - Forbes
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:13 AM   #38
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One reason this board is helpful is that few here are interested in popularity; they like to say what they think. And many here tend to think well about many things having to do with retirement and retirement finance.

Ha
Well said HaHa.

My reasons for not purchasing a VA are summed up in an acronym: ICE

I=Inflation: not inflation adjusted so, loses value each year; when compared to real return of a typical equity/bond allocation, VA loses.

C=Control: lose control of principal and lose liquidity, which is a big deal as one ages and encounters circumstances requiring liquidity. Also, even though sone VAs promise "return of principal", it's typically only after several years of paying high fees (in my example, a loss of 17% of initial investment plus whatever inflation was for 5 yrs).

E=Expenses: 2.79% / yr. Would anyone really sign up for this? After fees and inflation, there really is no "up side", no room for gain in VA value or payout. Although, the insurance company is guaranteed a nice return of 2.79% + whatever they get investing my money.

These numbers are based on an actual quote.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:41 AM   #39
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FWIW, I do recall that during the dark days following the crash of '08 the overall sentiment against VA's purchased before the crash on this board was not as harsh. A lot of people were hurting and most everybody was hit hard. The future looked less then bright. Times are good again.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:40 AM   #40
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If I were to look for a variable annuity, it would be with Vanguard but I am not.

If your concern is security I'd look at a fixed annuity, deferring it As long as possible since rates will go up and you would have a double win.....older age and higher rates would increase your monthly payout.

The most important thing is that you feel good about your financial future. And, you really listen to various opinions to make your best decision. If you came to this blog to hear you're right, you will be dissapointed. On the other hand, after you consider everyone's opinion, you should do what is right for you.

Me? I'm looking at charitable annuities. I can afford it, would like the security of monthly income and want to feel good since I'll give back some of my good fortune. Many on this blog can and many others can't afford it......everybody has to do their own thing. Keep watching and contributing.......this is one of the two best blogs worth my time.....a lot of very smart people on it.
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