Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2008, 08:34 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,657
If kids and ex are already moved away, then I'm not seeing much advantage to keeping a big old house. Are kids ever likely to move back there? Sounds like they are not. It's just a museum of memories and likely not going to be very helpful to him to hang onto unless maybe it's a family thing passed down from his parents/grandparents and so on. Otherwise I think he should get out from under it asap, get some counseling and get on with his life. Has he no roots in the area? Maybe a clean break and move would be energizing. I'd still strongly suggest avoiding any commingling with GF. He's just too messed up to think straight.
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-10-2008, 08:42 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
I think what we men need is a pharmacological temporary and reversible testosterone killer. So when we are about to do something really stupid, which is pretty much every day if I look at myself or any guy I know well, we could pop this pill for a few weeks and we would see our beloved Miss Universe as she might appear to a disinterested heterosexual female onlooker.

We could write down or record careful observations during this time. Behavioral quirks, unreasonable assumptions, overgrown expectations, emotional blackmail, etc. When we might decide to let the T kick back in we could read our notes. We should line up a bigger stronger buddy to beat the hell out of us if we seemed to be ignoring our observations as the T took hold once more.

Women sometimes joke about our testosterone poisoning. I hope that at least some of them sometimes don't quite perceive the full extent of it.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2008, 08:43 PM   #43
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 714
Known the guy for 20 years +, and I am one of his few contacts on a regular basis. We speak almost daily now. Some of my data may be off, simply based on my recollections of conversations over the years and recent.

Good point though ... I'm of course only getting his point of view. There's surely bias there that will distort my impressions of his reality.
Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2008, 10:17 PM   #44
Full time employment: Posting here.
ProspectiveBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
I'd still strongly suggest avoiding any commingling with GF. He's just too messed up to think straight.

I agree. Particularly with her having a high-school age kid at home, him turning into an instant step-dad would have its own emotional implications. Might be better to live separately and date for a couple of years until the younger son is out of the house, and then look at moving in together. That's likely what I'd do, anyway.

I know that he's burned out now, but a man with his experience should have no trouble at all finding a mid-management position that he could probably do in his sleep. He could probably easily make enough to support himself over the next couple of years while he gets his bearings.

Whatever happens, give us an update. Depression is no joke, and I hope your friend comes through this experience OK.
ProspectiveBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2008, 11:33 PM   #45
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Lots of interesting input, thanks.



The ex and children now live out of state, on the left coast, and he lives alone in the house in the SE. The house is full of memories, so that is an issue as well.

Was wondering about that- it sounds like the kids are grown and not really a factor in the geographic decision...

Yes, the marriage was dead for many years before the divorce. The ex did indeed become cold and controlled the children. As noted, she doesn't have it too easy either. Can't find a job, and she has tried. She has 20 months of alimony left, and then at age 59 she will have no income ... just the paid off house and liquid assets.

The girlfriend is an old girlfriend from 25 years ago. He had some contact with her before the divorce, but they weren't having an affair. She did provide some comfort to him at the end of a cold marriage.

Ditto- that is exactly the reason mine worked out so well- I married the woman I should have married the first time around...

According to the local attorney (who cost him about $15K) and others, his alimony / child support deal wasn't bad considering his income and net worth. Many are worse. Divorce is a killer.

On the house ... worth about $350K, needs some fix up to sell (new roof, interior / exterior paint), and the market is not devastated in his area, but it is tough. Very slow. If he puts the house up for sale, will probably take 12 months to unload. Monthly cost is pretty low ... $1,210 mortgage payment, plus utilities / maintenance / yard ... probably $2K in total.

You can't put price on the bad memories...

Back to your responses ... I'd appreciate a bit more color on your impressions of his idea to live on $5K/month. Is it really doable? $60K per year appears a bit higher than the median family income, but would be one heck of an adjustment for this guy.

I would look at 60K as a short-term solution- yes,it's doable, but this guy has skills that he can leverage into significant income when he gets his personal life back together. If they can ride it out until his alimony is over (only 50K or so) then things will get a lot easier- he should be back to work by then or the new GF will be getting tired of dealing with a basket case. Moving would give him a fresh start and a different set of expectations. If he stays in his old locale, he wil be dwelling on what he is missing out on - instead of what he is getting.


His real challenges are the sense of loss from giving away and selling so many of his personal possessions, his realization of how little he has to work with and show after this lifetime of work, and the perfect storm now of a declining economy / rising prices / lost job and disappearing severance. The guy has very few options left, and I know he is desperate.
The new GF sounds like she has her act together- she is employed, two grown kids in school, has a house, etc. On paper, she looks a lot better than the ex...And, they have both been down the wrong road before, so they will both be committed to getting it right this time around.

I'd move to the new location, rent an affordable apartment close by, ease into the new relationship to make sure it's what he really wants. If they both decide they are serious about the change, they need to figure out how to start living within their combined incomes, maybe it's only the 5K/month to start- as their situation improves over time- kids finish college, he goes back to work, etc. they will be able to invest for FIRE... which is only a few short years away.. Where there is a will, there is a way.

In my humble opinion, the poor guy is basing a lot of decisions on the snapshot of his life he has in front of him right now- he cannnot comprehend the big picture- it is easy for us to say do this/do that because we have objectivity. He is an emotional wreck right now, and until he finds a way to fix that, the $ aren't going to matter to him.
If the new GF can help him through the emotional side, then he can start to address the financial. If she can't, then he will be dealing with a whole different set of issues a year from now.

I wish him the best. I've been there and it isn't easy.
Westernskies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 05:12 AM   #46
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Back to your responses ... I'd appreciate a bit more color on your impressions of his idea to live on $5K/month. Is it really doable? $60K per year appears a bit higher than the median family income, but would be one heck of an adjustment for this guy.

Sure he can live on $60k a year. Lots of people do it. Buy food, housing, clothing first. Everything else is "wants". Key is being able to understand the difference between needs and wants. Lord & Taylor becomes K-mart or a thrift shop. The new Benz become a used Chevy. Few if any restaurant meals. Cook his own meals at home, brown bag lunch.

"...one heck of an adjustment..."? Cry me a river.
__________________
When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 06:58 AM   #47
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
so she changes course mid-stream. their dream was never her dream. she only made out as if she shared his dream until she hooked her man. she never wanted to be a working mom. why should she. she deserved to be a kept woman. she deserved to be donna reed.

so the guy had to work even harder to make up for her loss of income. instead of remaining in partnership, he wound up working for she, the queen b*. she became arrogant in this, castrating her man at every opportunity. she took complete control over his children. he didn't have a say in how they were raised, all he had was a paycheck to deliver. in her state of entitlement, she stopped loving him in bed. he felt excluded from his own home during the day and during the night.
This quote alone deserves a separate discussion.....like when it's OK for a wife to be a SAHM or when to continue working instead. I'd be curious to hear men's perspectives/opinions in such situations or what they did in real life and why and how it worked out in the end.
aida2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 07:27 AM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,455
Quote:
Back to your responses ... I'd appreciate a bit more color on your impressions of his idea to live on $5K/month. Is it really doable? $60K per year appears a bit higher than the median family income, but would be one heck of an adjustment for this guy.
We are a family of four and living under $50K yearly budget. If he is willing to adapt a new standard of living, he can definitely do it. "Where there is a will, there is a way".
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 07:30 AM   #49
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
They didn't live all that high on the hog, but someone hit it above ... the ex never contributed much to the marriage. She played at being a real estate agent, and usually lost money doing it. She had a college education, and later a paralegal degree, but focused on raising the kids, which has its own benefits of course. But ... it is expensive.

Even when someone is earning $200K+, after taxes and supporting three other people that don't work, it isn't as much as you would hope. And, their oldest child is seriously mentally disabled (mid 20's now, will likely never work), which also drove up costs.

The ex and children now live out of state, on the left coast, and he lives alone in the house in the SE. The house is full of memories, so that is an issue as well.

Yes, the marriage was dead for many years before the divorce. The ex did indeed become cold and controlled the children. As noted, she doesn't have it too easy either. Can't find a job, and she has tried. She has 20 months of alimony left, and then at age 59 she will have no income ... just the paid off house and liquid assets.

The girlfriend is an old girlfriend from 25 years ago. He had some contact with her before the divorce, but they weren't having an affair. She did provide some comfort to him at the end of a cold marriage.

According to the local attorney (who cost him about $15K) and others, his alimony / child support deal wasn't bad considering his income and net worth. Many are worse. Divorce is a killer.

On the house ... worth about $350K, needs some fix up to sell (new roof, interior / exterior paint), and the market is not devastated in his area, but it is tough. Very slow. If he puts the house up for sale, will probably take 12 months to unload. Monthly cost is pretty low ... $1,210 mortgage payment, plus utilities / maintenance / yard ... probably $2K in total.


Back to your responses ... I'd appreciate a bit more color on your impressions of his idea to live on $5K/month. Is it really doable? $60K per year appears a bit higher than the median family income, but would be one heck of an adjustment for this guy.


His real challenges are the sense of loss from giving away and selling so many of his personal possessions, his realization of how little he has to work with and show after this lifetime of work, and the perfect storm now of a declining economy / rising prices / lost job and disappearing severance. The guy has very few options left, and I know he is desperate.
Well, my assumptions were almost correct except for the first 2.5 sentences...but it's the past now ...let's get back to Craig's questions.

When you say $60k/year, what area are we discussing here? SF, LA, NYC or some rural area in South? If it's somewhere cheap, it's VERY doable, but the issue here is his prior earnings and lifestyle. It would depend on his personality also. One person can find liberating to work for much less $$ and stress, but another will seek a job to stay a 'slave' in order to continue his prior image with BIG bucks.

Also, like others said, I wouldn't jump to the next marriage again so soon. I'd get my head together first. Right now based on your description it sounds to me that the man is seriously depressed, he feels as if he's drowning now and as if his old sweetheart will rescue him if he moves in with her. Maybe she will rescue, but if not what's then?? In any case, I'm not competent to analyze relationships but I've had long distance relationships. It drastically differs when you communicate personally vs. virtually or on the phone. Anyway, if I were him, I'd proceed very cautiously. Move to the same town, rent an apartment, but I wouldn't move into the same house with the GF. They were sweethearts 25 years ago, people change, they expectation change and in addition to that she's got her own kids. Won't they cause some tension in their relationhip? Or how will their rapport affect the kid who's still in HS (that's a sensitive age, I'd say)?
I'd be slow, but this is just me.....
aida2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
WAIT!!
Old 06-11-2008, 09:07 AM   #50
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 121
WAIT!!

When I was 54 the ex ran off with the milkman. Eight months later my job pretty much evaporated, I could have worked for a pittance due to the changes in my retirement, so I quit. I'm now 56.

Unless he is the most together person on the planet, he is no where ready to make any decisions short of taking care of himself daily. Doing so would entail getting his finances in order and being able to function as an adult prior to dragging anyone else into his mess.

Providing non physical comfort in a cold marriage is commonly known as an emotional affair. This is just one more sign that he is not able to function as an independent adult.
limpid lizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 09:47 AM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 7,677
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Psychiatric help might get him thinking straight. This is a time when friend's have too much baggage to be the best source. Emotional support is fine but not directional advice.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 03:27 PM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
[quote=Craig;
His real challenges are the sense of loss from giving away and selling so many of his personal possessions, his realization of how little he has to work with and show after this lifetime of work, and the perfect storm now of a declining economy / rising prices / lost job and disappearing severance. The guy has very few options left, and I know he is desperate.[/quote]

His sense of loss is "selling so many of his personal possessions" and "how little" he has to show. How sad that he doesn't even feel the loss of his family and spouse.

As for living on 5000K a month. I live on a little more than that and I am single. I find it enough to live a middle class life, nothing more.
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 03:46 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Women sometimes joke about our testosterone poisoning. I hope that at least some of them sometimes don't quite perceive the full extent of it.

Ha
There are still a few clueless women, mostly under age 18.
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 07:53 PM   #54
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 714
I didn't post it, but he certainly expresses missing his kids and even the ex-spouse as well. Tough combo.
Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 08:58 PM   #55
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BunsGettingFirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclarksnakes View Post
aida,
...I apologize for being a sexist pig. It is just too bad that we men own everything and run the world. I too am betting the deal was real sweet for the lawyer. He probably got five figures for a couple hours of his work and several hours of the real work by hourly wage earners in his office. How many lawyer jokes are there? Only two, all the rest are true stories. Let's see now? In one post I have probably offended all the women and lawyers on this forum. I do have fun! I actually agree with most of what you posted.
Jeff
Tempting fate. Martha's a moderator, lawyer, and a woman.

Frankly, if a woman were to give me the job of a Stay at Home Dad while the woman goes out to be C-level whatever, I'd take it because the C-level whatever probably comes with high stress, long hours, and endless pissing contests or, more precisely, not pissing contests since those meetings can get awfully long with no bio breaks in sight.

As a side note, unless Craig and Lazy are the same person, I cannot believe how close Lazy got it, considering that he's probably not lived the life of the people he described.
BunsGettingFirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tough Way to Live haha Other topics 56 02-27-2008 04:08 PM
Tough Spending Decision grumpy Life after FIRE 100 10-06-2006 04:02 AM
Man, We Are Tough On Terror poboy Other topics 20 05-05-2006 04:24 PM
Ok, so heres the tough question cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 24 09-11-2005 04:24 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:59 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.