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Old 12-13-2007, 11:14 AM   #21
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Thanks, Financedude.
It seems like financial advisers have pretty good support from vanguard - including the advisors.vanguard.com homepage designed exclusively for advisers. Plus they have products that virtually sell themselves like hotcakes.
I recently did a seminar on using ETF's to help diversify stock portfolios. A lot of the folks there had limited knowledge to say the least. So, as BIG as the market is, a lot of investors don't use them.

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The news article posted in the original post indicates that vanguard is increasing its outreach to financial advisers however some financial advisers feel that they are still lacking in certain respects. Particularly, some advisers enjoy receiving weekly newsletters or other promotional material from other fund sponsors such as SSgA and Barclay's.
I didn't think email was an expensive medium to use........

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I guess I may not understand the financial advising industry (although I think I have a pretty good under$tanding, if you know what I mean). However, it seems like money spent flooding advisers with glossy brochures and newsletters to better hawk their goods might be better spent on more research or saved to reduce fund expenses for the advisers' clients. Ultimately, reducing fund expenses increases investor returns. From my point of view, I think vanguard has figured this out pretty well and has taken cost effective measures to solicit advisers' patronage.
What Vanguard has figured out is that the average DIY doesn't do a lot of Vanguard ETF's for whatever reason. They are now trying to cater to advisors, which is the antithesis of their business model of DIY........seems ironic to me.............

[quote[However it is possible that they are hampering adviser's access to information and promotional material. I would guess this could negatively impact other fund shareholders (like myself) by reducing the potential assets under management and not allowing VG to reduce expenses to the extent possible. I'd like to know if this were the case. Hopefully any financial advisers can give their input on this issue.[/quote]

Well, the difference between .14% and .24% to my clients or myself is not a big deal. It's not like 5.75% and 1.25% every year versus .18% a year on funds...............

I'm sure Vanguard has plenty of folks out there doing direct ETF business with them, but apparently not enough...........
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:17 AM   #22
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Ohhhh....... thank you! You are so kind to us.......
No, I just believe in freedom of speech..........


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You know, after reading the thread, I went back and actually read the article, formed some opinions, and was about to post. But what I have to say may not 100% agree with the tone you expressed in your initial post. Will it be allowed, or am I just wasting my time?
You could always use "ignore posts", and then you wouldn't have to deal with me at all..........
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:30 AM   #23
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You could always use "ignore posts", and then you wouldn't have to deal with me at all..........
I wasn't talking about wanting to ignore what you had to say because I don't agree with it. I was talking about bothering to post my opinion because, as a moderator, you choose to close a thread when you and another poster disagreed.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:32 AM   #24
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I wasn't talking about wanting to ignore what you had to say because I don't agree with it. I was talking about bothering to post my opinion because, as a moderator, you choose to close a thread when you and another poster disagreed.
Which was wrong, and that's why I opened the thread.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:46 AM   #25
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I'm merging this with the other thread, for convenience sake... Once I figure out how, that is..........
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:59 AM   #26
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Hey, I'm curious.....

Just what does Barclays, or any ETF provider, do for FA's that Vanguard does not? Does it involve either $$$ or information to the FA that the individual investor cannot get?

From the article, I couldn't really tell what Vanguard was going to do for FA's going forward that it isn't doing now. And, more importantly, whether it would cost me money via higher fund expenses.

The situation seems analogous to the old conumdrum of whether a manufacturer should sell direct to the customer or through a string of distributors and retail dealers. I've seen both options work for various reasons and under various circumstances.
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Old 12-13-2007, 12:02 PM   #27
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What Vanguard has figured out is that the average DIY doesn't do a lot of Vanguard ETF's for whatever reason.

I'm one of those investors .The only ETF I have is QQQQ because I really do not understand the difference between a ETF SP 500 and an Index SP500 and what the advantages are .
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Old 12-13-2007, 12:37 PM   #28
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Rewind to 1965

"Yep, I've sold these Magnavox TVs in my store for years. Get a good markup on them. A few days ago, some guy from a Japanese company called Sony called me up, said maybe I should sell their TVs. No way, I'll stick with the proven brands. My friend at the American Motors dealer said he'd gotten a call from a "Toyota" distributor wanting to work something out, too. Nope, we're sticking with the brands that give us a big margin, that's where the security is."
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:01 PM   #29
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Well, the difference between .14% and .24% to my clients or myself is not a big deal. It's not like 5.75% and 1.25% every year versus .18% a year on funds...............
Do you have any clients w/ substantial wealth invested w/ you? If I had a million bucks and I (or my financial adviser that I pay) could save 0.1%, that translates to $1000 back in my pocket year in and year out. That's pretty substantial to me. You are a lucky man indeed if your clients don't mind paying an extra $1000 on top of your fees! I wish I had clients like that in my line of work.

Maybe this is why I don't have a financial adviser and prefer vanguard and fidelity and their ilk.
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:16 PM   #30
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Do you have any clients w/ substantial wealth invested w/ you?
Yes..why does that matter?

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If I had a million bucks and I (or my financial adviser that I pay) could save 0.1%, that translates to $1000 back in my pocket year in and year out. That's pretty substantial to me. You are a lucky man indeed if your clients don't mind paying an extra $1000 on top of your fees!
You wouldn't pay an advisor anyways.........Again, my fees are transparent in the IPS I set up for them. Most of them are millionaires who don't want to take the time and/or take the responsibility to manage their own investments.

They hire me to manage their money for them. I have always had an open-door policy with my clients. If they don't like the work I am doing for them, the have the right to leave anytime they want.

I realize a fair number of folks on here have had bad experiences with advisors, have chosen to DIY, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

10 bp is not a lot to bicker over........ For comparison, there's almost a TRILLION dollars in hedge funds......which charge 2% a year in expenses, plus keep 20% of the profits also........that make our discussion pretty trivial in comparison..........
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:47 PM   #31
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Getting back to the article...........

What is Vanguard proposing they will do for FA's. It's really not clear to me what is going to change and if it is going to cost me, a DIY'er, any money or give the FA's any sort of advantage in securing information.

If it's nominal, a few color borchures and even a card at xmas, no problem. But I'd really be disappointed in Vanguard if they compensate FA's at the expense of DIY'ers.
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:52 PM   #32
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Getting back to the article...........

What is Vanguard proposing they will do for FA's. It's really not clear to me what is going to change and if it is going to cost me, a DIY'er, any money or give the FA's any sort of advantage in securing information.

If it's nominal, a few color borchures and even a card at xmas, no problem. But I'd really be disappointed in Vanguard if they compensate FA's at the expense of DIY'ers.
They're not going to do much of anything, fear not.......

DIYers are safe.........
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:55 PM   #33
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You could always use "ignore posts", and then you wouldn't have to deal with me at all..........
I'm not sure if the winky face means you realize that we can't do that b/c you are a moderator.
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:59 PM   #34
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Quite honestly, Vanguard has been weak on this issue........I got some calls a year ago asking me to do ETF business with Vanguard, but their support is terrible.
What do you mean by support? If Vanguard support was absolutely excellent, what would that mean? Would it include FA's getting some kind of propriatary information not available to DIY'ers? Or direct $$$ payments? Or would it simply be the kind of things mentioned in the article like generic info on what makes clients happy and that sort of thing?

Just curious. I have no problem with fee for service FA's, but not if they get compensation or services at my expense or in ways that are in conflict with individual investors.

Edited to add: Hadn't seen your latest post when I wrote this.
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Old 12-13-2007, 03:13 PM   #35
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Just curious. I have no problem with fee for service FA's, but not if they get compensation or services at my expense or in ways that are in conflict with individual investors.
I think you are referring to the many "soft-dollar" arrangements that have surfaced in the news over the years.

Vanguard would never compensate advisors to sell their product, no worries. Most of that stuff has been outlawed anyways for the folks who were guilty of doing it. Most of them paid a big fine but admitted no wrongdoing..........

If all you want in an ETF is indexing, then Vanguard has the cheapest deal in town. That's not a big surprise. If you want an ETF that uses quantitative screens in it's process, then I can't use Vanguard....it's that simple...............
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Old 12-13-2007, 03:14 PM   #36
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I'm not sure if the winky face means you realize that we can't do that b/c you are a moderator.
I did not know that........I am new to the moderator arena..........
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:08 PM   #37
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I think you are referring to the many "soft-dollar" arrangements that have surfaced in the news over the years.
No, not actually. But that's interesting, and appreciated, info.

What I want to know is....... when you say Vanguard support to FA's is not as good as others provide, what do you get from the others that Vanguard does not provide?

I'm just digging for info to help make decisions on who I do business with.

You seem to be dodging the question and if this is too personal or confidential, just say so, no problem.
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Old 12-14-2007, 09:00 AM   #38
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Okay I'll ask again ,what are the benefits of a ETF as compared to a index fund ?
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Old 12-14-2007, 09:20 AM   #39
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What I want to know is....... when you say Vanguard support to FA's is not as good as others provide, what do you get from the others that Vanguard does not provide?
More than an 800 number and a website. Come on, it's not rocket science. Does anyone on here really THINK or WANT Vanguard to cater to advisors? If they really wanted to get in the game, they would have to spend some money...they're not going to do that...........

From Barclays and others I get:

Webinars (web training and sales ideas)
Local CE and seminars where folks like Ed Slott talk
A dedicated internal and external wholesaler network
E-mail alerts when new ETF's are being launched
Telephone conferences with portfolio managers

From Vanguard, I get:

An 800 number and a website..........
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:33 AM   #40
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Financedude,

Maybe you should spend an hour or so tooling around the vanguard advisor's site. They actually have most of what "Barclay's and others" offer, from what I can tell without registering for a login ID. Sure, it might take you a couple hours to figure out what they have to offer, but after all, if you can save your clients tens of thousands of dollars in fees, wouldn't it be worth your while? After all, aren't folks paying you to advise them. I'd expect no less from an adviser if I chose to retain one.
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