Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-09-2010, 02:23 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Not convincing at all. These people don't cost the State of California anything because they are Walmart employees, they cost Califirnia because they are poor and California (and the federal government) have put these programs in place. They'd be poorer still (and cost Calif more money) if they had no jobs at all, which in many cases is the alternative to employment at Walmart.

Does Walmart benefit the poor? Yes--it provides a greater benefit to the poor than does the entire Food Stamp program. Washington Post: Progressive Walmart. Really
Quote:
As a force for poverty relief, Wal-Mart's $200 billion-plus assistance to consumers may rival many federal programs. Those programs are better targeted at the needy, but they are dramatically smaller. Food stamps were worth $33 billion in 2005, and the earned-income tax credit was worth $40 billion.

Set against these savings for consumers, Wal-Mart's alleged suppression of wages appears trivial. Arindrajit Dube [note: Author of paper at M.Paquete's link] of the University of California at Berkeley, a leading Wal-Mart critic, has calculated that the firm has caused a $4.7 billion annual loss of wages for workers in the retail sector. This number is disputed: Wal-Mart's pay and benefits can be made to look good or bad depending on which other firms you compare them to. When Wal-Mart opened a store in Glendale, Ariz., last year, it received 8,000 applications for 525 jobs, suggesting that not everyone believes the pay and benefits are unattractive.

But let's say we accept Dube's calculation that retail workers take home $4.7 billion less per year because Wal-Mart has busted unions and generally been ruthless. That loss to workers would still be dwarfed by the $50 billion-plus that Wal-Mart consumers save on food, never mind the much larger sums that they save altogether. Indeed, Furman points out that the wage suppression is so small that even its "victims" may be better off. Retail workers may take home less pay, but their purchasing power probably still grows thanks to Wal-Mart's low prices.
The article above also describes the demographics of Wal-Mart shoppers, and it's a good bet that about $50B of that $200B in benefits to consumers go to the poor. That $50B is more than either Food Stamps or the Earned Income Tax Credit. And it comes with no government overhead, no scams where people sell food stamps for other "needed items", etc.

Of course, if Walmart paid $30 per hour and gave full medical coverage and child care, I guess fewer of their employees would be getting help from the generous people of California. For about 6 months, when the company would go bankrupt.
__________________

__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-09-2010, 02:47 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
martyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bossier City
Posts: 2,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
The military never paid shift differential, plus we were on call 24/7/365.

yup, you got that right! Today's military also pays considerably more than the $8 an hour he gets at Wal-Mart, IF you figure it on an 8 or 9 hour day. I did work plenty of 9 hour days in the military, and also even had a few less than full days, due to the occaisional generosity of a shift leader when things slacked off a little, but the extra long days & nights more than made up for any slack time.
__________________

__________________
“Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.”
-John F. Kennedy

“Hard work never killed anybody, but why take a chance?” - Edgar Bergen
martyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2010, 03:58 PM   #43
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Not convincing at all. These people don't cost the State of California anything because they are Walmart employees, they cost Califirnia because they are poor and California (and the federal government) have put these programs in place. They'd be poorer still (and cost Calif more money) if they had no jobs at all, which in many cases is the alternative to employment at Walmart.
Exactly. That is what most of the folks shouting "Wal-Mart shows it's employees how to get foodstamps" tend to overlook. Folks working at Wal-Mart are there because it is likely to be the best job they can get (modulo the high 'friction' of the job search and hiring process). Wal-Mart specializes in cheap, and that extends to labor as well as merchandise.

If someone gets really good at what they do at Wal-Mart, there is always the possibility that they'll be able to get a position elsewhere, with better pay and benefits. Annual turnover at Wal-Mart was estimated at 70% in 1999 (Wal-Mart said this was down to 45% in 2002, the last recession), so we can hope some workers are moving up in the world. Note that the high turnover raises the overhead for Wal-Mart with higher hiring costs and training costs per position, which cuts into profitability per employee.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2010, 06:22 PM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 2,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre1969 View Post
I do remember they'd give us OT if we worked more than 40 hours in a week, but the sweet thing was they'd also do it if we worked more than 8 hours in a day! So I'd try to get in a few 9-10 hour days every once in awhile.
I don't think they were "giving" you anything. Isn't 1.5x REQUIRED for anything over 8 hrs/day and 40 hrs/wk REQUIRED by the minimum wage law for non-exempt employees? Some "free marketeers" folks believe the minimum wage law reduces employment. I remember my brother worked at Sears in the 60's and employees got a 20% discount....now THAT was sweet!
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 10:08 AM   #45
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
I don't think they were "giving" you anything. Isn't 1.5x REQUIRED for anything over 8 hrs/day and 40 hrs/wk REQUIRED by the minimum wage law for non-exempt employees? Some "free marketeers" folks believe the minimum wage law reduces employment. I remember my brother worked at Sears in the 60's and employees got a 20% discount....now THAT was sweet!
That's right, I forgot about the whole "exempt/non-exempt" thing. When I finally got a full-time job as a gov't contractor, I started off as non-exempt, but I don't think I got OT unless I went over 40 hours for the week. So theoretically I could work 4 10 hour days, take the 5th off, but not get OT. But that was also a long time ago, so my memory might be fuzzy on it.

I finally got moved to exempt status in 2001, but they cut a deal with me, giving me an out-of-cycle 10% raise, to offset the fact that I wouldn't be getting 1.5x for OT anymore.

And yeah, I had a 20% discount at Hechts, and that was pretty sweet. And where a good deal of my paycheck often went!
__________________
Andre1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 10:29 AM   #46
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Now, there's a unbiased source I trust...
__________________
Westernskies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 11:54 AM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
Now, there's a unbiased source I trust...
Come on guys, this is an excellent study. It clearly shows that California has a bloated entitlement system and something should be done about it. Just because the clowns unsuccessfully tried to vilify Wal-Mart doesn't take away from the fact that there is real benefit in reducing handouts in California. UC Berkeley - thanks for the vote for small government.
__________________

__________________
SunsetSail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wal-Mart vs Target mickeyd Other topics 111 03-20-2009 05:07 PM
Wal-mart wants to help end the health insurance crisis! maddythebeagle FIRE and Money 2 04-20-2006 07:16 AM
Sleepy at Wal-Mart mickj Other topics 3 11-28-2005 03:06 PM
New Competition for Wal-Mart intercst FIRE and Money 38 05-20-2005 06:55 PM
Don't Blame Wal-Mart Eagle43 Other topics 22 03-03-2005 03:13 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:41 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.