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Old 01-02-2010, 10:42 AM   #21
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only 77 people in the entire country have done this, hardley a matter that needs fixing.
True, but remember our augus solons turned their valuable attention to the College Football Bowl system.

Ha
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:52 AM   #22
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I brought up the fact that very few people take advantage of this rule, and that perhaps they wouldn't change it for people who have already started receiving SS, but he was pretty insistent that "No, they've been discussing this for a while, and it will change pretty soon."

OTOH, remember that this is a very low-level social security administration person. He handles SS claims. Although he seems reasonably intelligent, until recently he had been working at the local gas station.
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:58 AM   #23
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only 77 people in the entire country have done this, hardley a matter that needs fixing.
And what type of people would these be? Hated "rich" ones. Expect action on this most pressing issue.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:00 AM   #24
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OTOH, remember that this is a very low-level social security administration person. He handles SS claims. Although he seems reasonably intelligent, until recently he had been working at the local gas station.
Wonder if he knows the teller at my bank who says the Fed is going back on the gold standard any day now...
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:24 AM   #25
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Although he seems reasonably intelligent, until recently he had been working at the local gas station.
And they haven't made him a department head yet?
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:04 PM   #26
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I'll be 62 in March and I am going to start drawing SS then. My hubby started at 63 1/2. We actually thought about doing the payback on his, but ultimately decided against it.

We will be in the lowest tax bracket, and actually will have very little taxable income. We know we're giving up some pretty large dollars in the long term, but it just seems right for us.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:49 PM   #27
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We are 63 and "staying the course" until In the meantime, we have sufficient pension income combined with savings that keeps us and the dog "covered". We are planning on not touching our investments for awhile - if possible.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:22 PM   #28
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I'm 38 and been retired for 3 years. I do not include SS into the equation at all. Never crosses my mind that I will ever get it.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:47 PM   #29
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This has not been mentioned yet, so let me ask: I just started at 65 taking SS and was definitely planning to give it back and re-start at 70. If this law goes thru then I assume it is still smarter to give the money back to Uncle Sam and just re-start at 70 when I turn 70 some years from now? We are STILL getting more if we wait until we turn 70 aren't we or are they cutting that out, too?
(I don't need the money now, so this would be no hardship.)

Did I miss catching exactly when we are going to be getting 78 cents on the dollar? Does that mean they are giving us shorter checks? Or the dollar will be worth 78 cents in value later on?
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:00 PM   #30
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This has not been mentioned yet, so let me ask: I just started at 65 taking SS and was definitely planning to give it back and re-start at 70. If this law goes thru then I assume it is still smarter to give the money back to Uncle Sam and just re-start at 70 when I turn 70 some years from now? We are STILL getting more if we wait until we turn 70 aren't we or are they cutting that out, too?
(I don't need the money now, so this would be no hardship.)

Did I miss catching exactly when we are going to be getting 78 cents on the dollar? Does that mean they are giving us shorter checks? Or the dollar will be worth 78 cents in value later on?
It was my understanding that the way this really works is that you take all of your SS withdrawals (found money, in this case) and invest it during the ensuing years. Then years later, give it all back -- except all that interest earned -- penalty-free and you then can collect all that additional interest money the guvment owes you for not taking any out of the system early. Or something like that.
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:35 PM   #31
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RonBoyd, yes, that was what I was trying to do exactly by starting my SS at 65 (when I first found out about this found money or I would have taken SS at 62 like the smart people did) and then I plan to give it back to Uncle Sam when I was 2 months away from 70 (minus my interest on the SS I already collected, hence, the found money).

Then what the heck are they doing with this loophole? Not allowing me to re-start at 70 even if I give the money back or what? What am I not understanding from this thread?
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:45 PM   #32
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Then what the heck are they doing with this loophole? Not allowing me to re-start at 70 even if I give the money back or what? What am I not understanding from this thread?
Well, there are those that would argue that "You agreed to forgo the higher rate" when you requested the early entry point. Furthermore, they would say that you shouldn't collect any earnings on money you withdrew from the system... particularly by simply "paying it back." (Sorta like "I shouldn't be in jail for bank robbery because I turned myself in and gave the money back.") How silly of them, huh? Or something like that.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:28 PM   #33
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I'm going to check into putting it back now then. I just don't want to take any chances with not being able to re-start at 70. Just what I need: one more thing to take care of.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:33 PM   #34
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The whole thing is silly. Much ado about nothing. This is like being excited that you can get a $20 bill from the grocery store and all you have to do is give them 4 $5 bills. But man!!! They gave me a twenty!!!

The primary advantage is that if you do it at 66 or 70 or whatever, you know that you've lived past age 62. What people fail to realize is that what you are really doing is indeed, merely starting over. Duh. You give them back all the money you've collected and then restart it at your current age. If you die the next day, you (well, your heirs) lost all the money that you collected from age 62. When you give it back, you also give up all the advantage of the money you collected. I fail to see the attraction. It's not like you get to get the new larger payout *and* keep the money they already paid you.

The SS admin explicitly says that the benefit levels are set so that you'll collect in your lifetime the same amount of money no matter when you start.

Okay, granted, you _do_ get to keep whatever interest you've earned. And you did get the benefit of being able to keep the money you collected, if you had died before giving it back.
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:06 AM   #35
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A key question:

WWWBD -- What would Warren Buffett do? Does anybody know?

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Old 01-06-2010, 06:17 AM   #36
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rayvt, if I am understanding your post, do you realize that you make out much better by starting SS at 70--but only if you live alot longer Both my parents lived into their 90's, so I'm playing the numbers and assuming I will, also. By re-starting and beginning to collect at 70--and assuming I live to 90--I will do so, so, so much better than by beginning collecting at 62 (or 65 as I didn't sign up then).
There must be a chart on this somewhere on the net to back up my statement.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:44 AM   #37
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The whole thing is silly. Much ado about nothing. This is like being excited that you can get a $20 bill from the grocery store and all you have to do is give them 4 $5 bills. But man!!! They gave me a twenty!!!
What people fail to realize is that what you are really doing is indeed, merely starting over. Duh.
Okay, granted, you _do_ get to keep whatever interest you've earned. And you did get the benefit of being able to keep the money you collected, if you had died before giving it back.
Well, as you put it "duh," - your last two sentences are the answer to why it isn't silly. And don't belittle the difference between deciding to take a larger payout when you are already near 70 and having to decide the issue at 62. SSA says a 62 YO has a life expectancy of 80.91. A 70 YO has a life expectancy of 83.3. If Al is correct and you can take a tax deduction for IRA funds you use to pay it back it is a great deal. As Burns or someone someone said a while back, this is the cheapest, most secure cola'd SPIA you can buy.

OrchidFlower - no need to act immediately on a rumor. All you have to do is pay attention to the issue and file if SSA actually proposes to change it.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:12 AM   #38
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There may be some warning to avoid litigation. Consider this:

"... plaintiffs argue that there is nothing in the federal Social Security law that says a retired person who chooses not to apply for Medicare coverage will be stripped of his or her Social Security benefits.

But in 1993 and 2002 the Social Security Administration issued rules in the Social Security program operations manual stating that retirees would lose their benefits if they opted out of Medicare Part A, the government's hospital insurance entitlement program.

The plaintiffs argue that the Clinton and Bush administrations put the new rules into effect without following the Administrative Procedure Act, which requires notice of proposed rule-makings and appropriate comment periods for the general public.

In letting the case move forward, Judge Collyer said there is nothing in either the Medicare Act or the Social Security Act requiring the plaintiffs to pay Social Security benefits back to the government to get out of Medicare."

Retirees Who Want to Opt Out of Medicare Can Sue Government
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:42 AM   #39
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I posted on this about a year ago. The Inspector General has issued a report to the SSA regarding the loophole which allows people to pay back SS without interest and then reapply to get the higher benefit. http://www.ssa.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/A-05-08-28110.pdf

As a result of this report the loophole could disappear at anytime if the SSA decided to change its current policy.

The suggestion in the report is:


. . SSA may want to modify the criteria for withdrawing Title II benefit
applications and limit its use. For example, withdrawals could be limited to cases where
(1) work activity has significantly reduced the amounts received by the beneficiary and
(2) the beneficiary has yet to reach FRA. SSA may want to also ensure beneficiaries
are aware of the implications of this withdrawal process, which may entail placing
additional information on SSA’s website.



The prior thread: Take SS ASAP and Invest it instead of waiting?
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:23 AM   #40
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A key question:

WWWBD -- What would Warren Buffett do? Does anybody know?

lhamo
Well, based on what he does with income taxes, Warren would:
- Hire the very best attorneys and accountants to figure out how he could get every dime possible out of Social Security. He'll arrange his affairs in an extremely complex fashion to milk every possible SS benefit.
Then
- When the political season arrives, he'll write a bunch of letters about how he shouldn't qualify for any Social Security at all, that the system isn't fair. (But he'll keep taking the payments and not give anything extra back to the government).
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