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Old 12-02-2012, 01:36 PM   #81
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What about a person with a disabled child? That could take millions to fund care for them. Shouldn't you be allowed to do that?
-ERD50
I don't follow what this has to do with my statement about the estate tax.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:32 PM   #82
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:51 PM   #83
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And the "power" of an "assets tax" to raise government revenue with seemingly small tax rates is a primary danger to those hoping to accumulate enough money to attain some measure of self-sufficiency in retirement.
It could be, but it needn't be. Bloomberg, the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, the Waltons, Scaife, the hedge fund managers, and the rest of the 1% or the 5% are not savers. They are people powerful enough to get the tax codes written to give them advantages the rest of us do not have, such as hedge fund managers having their income taxed at capital gains rates.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:24 PM   #84
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It could be, but it needn't be. Bloomberg, the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, the Waltons, Scaife, the hedge fund managers, and the rest of the 1% or the 5% are not savers.
Hey, you forgot George Soros when building your list.

The wealthy, and the rest of us, have earned their money in all kinds of ways: invention, being good at sports or acting, working their tails off to build a business, having a talent for investing (that means, in simple terms, being able to efficiently put capital where it can be most productive, something we should all encourage and which benefits society at large), going to school to learn a highly technical skill that is in demand and then working hard for decades, etc. I totally agree that some people have used their financial resources to modify the tax code for their own benefit. Others have warped the tax code to their benefit through more direct political means. All of that is an argument for a simpler, more transparent tax code, not for confiscating anybody's accumulated savings.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:45 PM   #85
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What about a person with a disabled child? That could take millions to fund care for them. Shouldn't you be allowed to do that?
I don't follow what this has to do with my statement about the estate tax.
You said you were fine with an estate tax. But what about when there is a need to pass money from a parent to a disabled child? The estate tax would limit this.

-ERD50
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:04 PM   #86
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It could be, but it needn't be. Bloomberg, the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, the Waltons, Scaife, the hedge fund managers, and the rest of the 1% or the 5% are not savers. They are people powerful enough to get the tax codes written to give them advantages the rest of us do not have, such as hedge fund managers having their income taxed at capital gains rates.
They certainly do everything they can to (unfairly) influence taxes to their favor, but saying they're not "savers" is laughable. Does "accumulators" work better for you? Many if not most of them generate income faster than they spend it...to suggest the top 1-5%'s wealth is only due to favorable tax code is unfounded nonsense.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:28 PM   #87
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It could be, but it needn't be. Bloomberg, the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, the Waltons, Scaife, the hedge fund managers, and the rest of the 1% or the 5% are not savers. They are people powerful enough to get the tax codes written to give them advantages the rest of us do not have, such as hedge fund managers having their income taxed at capital gains rates.
You are right - they are not savers - they are investors.

It seems that suddenly the group with a target on their chest has expanded from the 1% to the 5%!

I wonder - how many 99%ers are employed by companies that these people have a major ownership interest in? If they have to pay 2% of their wealth to the government each year, would they instead just flee the US? What implications would the wealth tax have on the number of people their companies employ?

The one thing I would agree with you on is that carried interest should not be taxed at capital gains rates, but that has been controversial for a long time.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:53 PM   #88
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A most delightful discussion, thanks to all who participated

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