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Old 10-04-2015, 04:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ETFs_Rule View Post
If investors can't help themselves from selling low and buying high then they need to pay some advisor 1% per year to hold their hand.
Or 0.3% for VPAS. The robo-advisor firms gaining popularity are also much less than 1%, but I don't know of that includes hand-holding or 'behavioral coaching.'

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Old 10-04-2015, 09:38 AM   #22
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At the risk of again poking the bear - I've always felt the financial industry has somewhat condoned the complexity of (retirement) investing. It's like Doctor-speak when describing someone's illness, that has to again be explained in layman's terms (why? - I'm not impressed and I believe most people are also a little irritated when having to ask for the layman's explanation). Add to this the well-intentioned meddling by the government and the insurance industry, and you have quite a complex scenario that should be structured so that everyone feels comfortable setting up their initial (retirement) investing. Talk about taking a process that should be fairly simple (for those not interested in managing their retirement investing) and making it rocket science. This should easily win as the poster child for that definition. Not sure why the basics aren't taught in school, but maybe goes back to my first comment about the complexity. A lot of people get wealthy and earn very high incomes in the financial investing industry.

Over the years of investing and managing our retirement investments, I've had numerous situations (conversations with inexperienced retirement investors, and those that should have known) where people who should have been given better advice - didn't get it. I've actually received monetary compensation from a company (a financial institution) for pointing out omissions in their retirement plan by the company that sold it to them (they switched plans the next year).

My first run-in with a FA actually got me started on the path to learning all I could about investing. I was fortunate enough to have spotted what he suggested I invest in was not in my best interest, and put a chunk of my money in his pocket from the get-go (high front loads). One of my wife's company retirement plan administrators actually charged a $50 fee per account to roll over her 401K. My list of these goes on and on from over the years. A lot of folks here mention similar experiences for themselves or relatives/friends. One on my relatives actually had a FA follow him to his house to get a check from him for investing. Ended up in high risk tech stock mutual funds with high expenses and a better than 5% hit in up front loads. FYI - another relative of his recommended the FA. I pointed out the areas of concern with the investment selections when they showed them to me (they eventually got with Vanguard), but they're still troubled by their first investing experience and felt that I should've given them advice when we had a conversation about investing quite some time before they chose to invest back then (no good deed goes unpunished). I've always felt it was better to refrain from offering unsolicited financial advice, as scenarios like my relatives would comeback to bite me if the market wasn't always going up.

I also feel that there's something not quite right with paying someone who wins - whether you do or not (commission scenarios). This is not to meant to discredit those in the industry actively helping those to invest wisely who come to them for advice for a fee (and I'm pretty sure there are more of them than those who just help themselves to your money). It's just that there's a sea of people wanting to help and not all of them have your best interests at heart (some have their own best interests at heart, especially if they're offering you a free meal).

Vanguard has been very active lately with the emails and letters - pushing their attractively priced Financial Advisor Service. You have to wonder if this is a defensive mode due to attrition of customers who're getting advice to move their funds to other companies, or just for VG's financial interest (I'd like to think it would be the former suggestion). I'm on my 3rd Flagship representative (never have spoken with the third one), but he has sent more emails for VG services than the other two combined. Where were they when I first started investing, and when I rolled over our 401Ks from former employers over the years...

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Old 10-04-2015, 11:46 AM   #23
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I hold my own hand and my investment strategy has held up quite well so far. I think I will continue to save on fees.
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Old 10-04-2015, 12:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by fritz View Post
Talk about taking a process that should be fairly simple (for those not interested in managing their retirement investing) and making it rocket science.
They make it complex so that you feel compelled to hire them. Instead of recommending a simple 3 index fund portfolio they'll tell you that you need 15 ETF's, with a growth large cap, a value large cap, a growth mid cap, a value mid cap, a growth small cap, a value small cap, a real estate fund, a natural resources fund, an emerging markets fund, a euro fund, several bond fund, etc.

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