Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 10:59 AM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

What do I mean? Well, I got to thinking about this last week. Pretty much all of us does the LBYM thing on here, so we can FIRE............a no-brainer, right?

Well, for an example, just because I can LIVE on $40,000 doesn't mean I SHOULD HAVE TO when I am FIRED, right?

I mean, if I delay gratification for 30 years so I can save and invest a bunch of money, should I not want to position myself so I can SPEND MORE after FIRE??

What if I want to spend $80,000 a year in retirement, or whatever? I guess I am confused..........a LOT of my clients find when they retire their costs GO UP, because now they have the TIME to do stuff like travel.............
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 11:07 AM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
I mean, if I delay gratification for 30 years so I can save and invest a bunch of money, should I not want to position myself so I can SPEND MORE after FIRE??
I think that philosophy has a hard time prevailing against the daily grind of commuting & working, plus the mental stress & physical-health impacts. Oh, yeah, and balancing work against family priorities too.

Four years ago I was offered a job after retiring. Yesterday the guy who made that offer reminded me that I could go to work for him whenever I was ready. GS-11 pay scale with Hawaii's 25% cost-of-living supplement means that I've already "wasted" about $300K by not going back to work.

I don't think it's about having enough to live in opulence, it's about affording independence. And that's priceless.

But, Dude, don't let me stop you-- you're the one who has to set the alarm clock!
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 11:17 AM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Telly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,448
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
..........a LOT of my clients find when they retire their costs GO UP, because now they have the TIME to do stuff like travel.............
That is interesting... Do you think that many of your clients are LBYM types?
__________________
-- Telly, the D-I-Y guy --
Two fools dancing on the hands of time
Telly is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 11:24 AM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
I mean, if I delay gratification for 30 years so I can save and invest a bunch of money, should I not want to position myself so I can SPEND MORE after FIRE??
That's what investment is all about - Delay consumption now so that at some time in the future I can have more.

Only you can find the right mix of work/savings/current versus future consumption.

The question(s) you need to ask yourself is(are)...

Is more consumption down the road worth working more now
Is more consumption down the road worth consuming less now


__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 11:28 AM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,884
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
What if I want to spend $80,000 a year in retirement, or whatever?
Sure you can. It's your stash. Go for it.

Just don't live too long.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 11:34 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Telly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,448
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I don't think it's about having enough to live in opulence, it's about affording independence. And that's priceless.
Yup!

And the times I think about it the most are on the many many beautiful days when working people think "I wish I could just take off work today and enjoy it".

We are those kind of people out enjoying it!

Full Disclosure: I do not have a Media Room or home theater, nor Plasma TV, 5kW stereo, lawn service, maid, newer cars, expensive club memberships, have not been out of the USA since ER'ing, we have to push our kitchen drawers all the way closed ourselves (they won't auto-close), the only stainless steel in the kitchen is utensils, and I have a nasty but mostly contained habit of scoffing at a lot of the flashy consumer must-haves that our society today thinks they are impoverished without.
__________________
-- Telly, the D-I-Y guy --
Two fools dancing on the hands of time
Telly is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 11:35 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Well, for an example, just because I can LIVE on $40,000 doesn't mean I SHOULD HAVE TO when I am FIRED, right?
...
What if I want to spend $80,000 a year in retirement, ...
Sounds good to me as long as you are planning 80K expense in retirement as opposed to 40K. How long does it take for one nest egg to double? That's also how much longer you have to work. Funny, heh? Can't have it both ways.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 01:38 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

I think each of us has a different approach. Personally, I get by now on something like $35k/yr for a family of 4. In retirement, still with the family of 4, I expect I'll be needing around $53000ish to live like I want (more traveling, paying our own health insurance, a little more on hobbies/entertainment). A big part of that is the health insurance benefit we get from work that will be paid out of pocket in ER. Also ~$12000 for fun/travel expenses. So we'll be (relatively speaking) living it up in retirement I guess.

For the LBYM types earning $80k take home and living on $40k during accumulation years, it's easier to ramp the spending up to $60k in retirement than it is for a regular joe who spends $75k of their take home and saves the other $5k. The latter guy will have to work WAY longer to be able to increase their spending by 50% up to ~$112.5k.

I think what you are getting at makes sense though. Why should you have to pinch every penny when you retire? Just save enough so you can live how you want. My problem now with full time work and kids is finding time/energy to do anything fun that requires money. An hour of peace and quiet to catch up on some tv or read a book is priceless at this point. If I were to ER today and suddenly have 50+ extra hours of "free time" each week, I might spend more money on fun stuff (Playstation 3, a boat, hours on the go-cart track, plundering some remote Mexican beach of all their corona one ice cold bottle at a time, etc).
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 01:54 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
tryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,449
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:

That's also how much longer you have to work. Funny, heh? Can't have it both ways.
Wellll, it depends more on how your investments have done. If I find that 20 years from now (when SS and pension kick in) my wad has TRIPLED or Quadrupled ... yeah, I'll spend more. But never ABOVE my means ... my means will have improved.

I don't plan on leaving much behind.
__________________
FIRE'd since 2005
tryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 02:14 PM   #10
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Some of these comments hit home with me. Bottom line: it's always better to delay FIRE if you are looking at the money/lifestyle/security angle. And in that context, the converse is that it's always better to live cheaper, too. So, work forever, then starve to death. Naah.

DW and I are not as wealthy as many here, but could downsize tomorrow to a still-decent townhome and retire the next day. Maybe eat out once a week. Wouldn't have to exactly watch our pennies, but would definitely need to plan and moderate major expenses like vacations, cars, etc. All in all, it doesn't feel too bad to me...

But I think we'd be happier feeling more free to travel, having a slightly nicer home to enjoy and entertain from. Play golf a little more. Not talking lap of luxury, but the type of "rewards" we'd appreciate for our hard work and saving. Maybe worry less about economic trends, help the kids a bit more. Have some margin for bad times. So, I still work hard, make and save money.

My tipping point: mild lilly-gilding (I think I just invented a verb). Then out. I think I'll know it when it's there. Liking my work makes it easy to wait.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 02:26 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

I can't think of many things I want.
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 02:27 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan
I can't think of many things I want.
Need any help?
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 02:31 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan
I can't think of many things I want.
Atleast if I have to pay for them. Now give me a genie in a bottle...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 03:01 PM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
kaudrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Alexandria, Va
Posts: 943
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

For me, I just plan on swapping expenses. Right now I have a mortgage but only pay a little for health insurance, and travel a few times a year.

When I FIRE, the mortgage will be paid off, so I'll use that money for more travel and to pay for healthcare (my mortgage is about $22K a year).

__________________
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one less travelled by...
kaudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 03:06 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bikerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,901
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I don't think it's about having enough to live in opulence, it's about affording independence. And that's priceless.

But, Dude, don't let me stop you-- you're the one who has to set the alarm clock!
I agree! My favorite thing to do in the winter in CT when it's snowing is having my coffee and breakfast and listening to the traffic report.
__________________
“I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said” Alan Greenspan
Bikerdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 03:08 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryan
If I find that 20 years from now (when SS and pension kick in) my wad has TRIPLED or Quadrupled ... yeah, I'll spend more.
What if you can wave a wand, and see your wad double, triple right now? No trick, no illusion. The idea is to find a place where your money is worth more. There are several members on this board who are very knowledged and experienced in this field. But that's another thread.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 03:10 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sheryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,459
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Well, for an example, just because I can LIVE on $40,000 doesn't mean I SHOULD HAVE TO when I am FIRED, right?

I mean, if I delay gratification for 30 years so I can save and invest a bunch of money, should I not want to position myself so I can SPEND MORE after FIRE??
This makes sense to me, Dude. Right now I'm too busy working to really spend money in a way that would make me happy (travel, entertainment, etc.). So I LBYM almost by default. The whole goal of FIRE for me is to have time to do more, and I know I will need/want more $ for those things, plus the blasted health insurance of course so I've always assumed that I'd be spending MORE after RE.

Just balance it out - don't push so long and so hard that by the time you finally FIRE you don't care about any of those things you thought you would...
__________________
Sheryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 03:41 PM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 209
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Currently, I could fire with a 3.5% SWR equal to 1x my current expenses. After careful consideration, DW and I decided to postpone retirement for 5.5 years (when DS starts college) or we reach a 4% SWR of 2x our current expenses, whichever comes first. I expect they will occur roughly the same time (I am not relying solely on market returns as we save about 50% of our income).

We made this decision as we lead a relatively frugal lifestyle at the present time, are young (42), and want to travel and play expensively in retirement. This means we are going to spend more when we retire. We carefully developed a proposed retirement budget and our predicted expense are 2x our current expenses. OTOH, this a definitely a gold-plated budget (3 months travel per year, class A RV, boat, ORV, more expense house, etc), so we could do on a lot less if so desired. No worries about a market downturn.
__________________
bbuzzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 03:50 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Personally, I get by now on something like $35k/yr for a family of 4.
I know you're in NC. But still, that is impressively low, especially since you're living in a house and carrying a mortgage. Good job, Justin, however you do it.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???
Old 11-30-2006, 04:52 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Re: What about Living ABOVE Your Means After FIRE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telly
That is interesting... Do you think that many of your clients are LBYM types?
Almost all of them............
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FIRE - A Guaranteed Decline in Standard of Living? bbuzzard FIRE and Money 51 12-23-2006 05:10 PM
How many of you can RE now, but are saving to raise your std of living? Surfdaddy FIRE and Money 60 04-17-2006 11:37 AM
My "unconventional" route to FIRE FreeBird Young Dreamers 46 02-06-2006 12:21 AM
RV living cfcf Life after FIRE 17 11-22-2004 08:00 PM
Low cost retirement living Skylark Life after FIRE 7 09-11-2004 04:26 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:42 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.