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Old 08-14-2018, 08:14 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
MS, won’t Medicaid kick in once she runs out of money?
If you're referring to me, then yes, mom should qualify for Medicaid once her personal assets are below $2000. I think they give her an "allowance" of around $70 for personal needs, but that won't even pay for her cable bill (all she does is watch TV).

Also, most assisted living homes in our area are NOT licensed to accept Medicaid. That was one of the things we looked for when we were trying to figure out where to move her. The ones that do take Medicaid require you to pay out of pocket for at least two years before they'll take Medicaid.

I don't know if Medicaid will pay any of her other expenses (utilities, etc.). I'm just planning that I'll have to pay those expenses (about $500-$600 per month) out of our own retirement budget. If Medicaid pays more it will be a pleasant surprise.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:18 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by SoReadyToRetire View Post
Well, all these calculations we go through before retiring tell us when we'll "run out of money". That's what I'm referring to.
When I do my calculations using RIP, I typically look at the worst market they typically model the worst case they usually provide for individuals. I run what I expect is a good planning age and extend it a decade or so. Or I increase my spending.

If you're planning for an average market or a short retirement, then I would rethink your plan. If you are planning assuming a very negative market, you will likely end up with more $ as the end than the plan.

I know some people who did not plan for retirement, were low earners and retired on SS taken early. Life is tight. Their hospital visits get written down. I've paid for some of their major dental work. Medicaid I think helps those with really low SS in the end and charities will help too.

This is why people have margin in their plans.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:22 AM   #63
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No plan survives contact with the enemy

There are good plans, bad plans, no-plans, etc., and then life happens.

My own parents retired in 1992 with zero debt, one COLA federal pension and one SS, some AT savings plus several hundred large in an IRA. They moved to an LCOL and their expenses were about one third of their income. Should be golden, right?

They had so much surplus $$ they gifted tons to my sisters for many years and it still piled up. They enjoyed a very long time in a well-planned retirement.

But even a solid plan can be derailed if it encounters a heavy enough burden. Memory care costs the earth, and if they live another 4 years it will exhaust their savings. It's strange that the most expensive period of their lives comes with the worst quality of life.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:24 AM   #64
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I would speak to an elder-care attorney about this.

My understanding is that any expenses you pay for your mother would be considered gift income and would reduce her medicaid for long term care dollar by dollar, assuming that you don't submit fraudulent paperwork when you re-qualify each year.
Hmm... I hadn't considered that aspect. Thankfully we still have several years before we have to worry about it. I'll probably check with an elder-care attorney when the time gets closer. If she doesn't live to 80+ she won't outlive her funds. Last year I didn't think she would last another year or two. Today she's doing better, so she could very well make it past 80 (though most members of our family died in their 60's and 70's).
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:33 AM   #65
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I'm far from an expert on SS but I thought the surviving spouse began receiving the SS of the deceased spouse. On the strength of that assumption I am planning to wait until 70 before claiming SS as a bit of extra insurance for my wife.
That is true, but with both spouses alive, the spousal benefit does increase the total household SS income.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:43 AM   #66
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Yet even the vigilant can get blindsided.

...

So even those who DO "...think about 'what if', look ahead or keep track of their money" can end up with money problems.
Hmmm....

I guess I should not be blowing more dough, and just keep my WR at the current 2.4%, which will get even lower when we draw SS.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:11 AM   #67
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My 59 YO SIL lives on $1,100/mth SS Disability and Medicare. She makes another $100 a month or so dog sitting. That's it. No savings.

There is a huge amount of retirees out there that live on their SS. While we all worry about our 6 and 7 digit retirement savings running out 30 years from now, the fact is there are many who are retired with basically nothing. No, they don't live extravagant lives, but they get by. My DF lived 32 years of retirement on a very small pension and SS. He spent very little from age 75 - 97. He was lucky in one respect in that he was healthy enough to live in his house until the very end.

I think for the most part people adjust their spending to their means - especially when they don't have savings.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:24 AM   #68
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No, not yet! If you run out of money (and SS is not adequate to pay the bills), and you own a house, but can't pay the property taxes, you may lose the house. Medicaid could step in and help with your medical care, but unless you qualify medically, would not pay for long time care.

Are you asking because you haven't saved anything, or don't want to save anything?
FYI, in Illinois, seniors can defer their real estate taxes:

Quote:
Senior Citizens Real Estate Tax Deferral Program
This program allows persons 65 years of age and older to defer all or part of the real estate taxes and special assessments (up to a maximum of $5,000) on their principal residences. The deferral is similar to a loan against the property's market value. A lien is filed on the property in order to ensure repayment of the deferral. The state pays the property taxes and then recovers the money, plus 6 percent annual interest, when the property is sold or transferred. The deferral must be repaid within one year of the taxpayer’s death or 90 days after the property ceases to qualify for this program. The maximum amount that can be deferred, including interest and lien fees, is 80 percent of the taxpayer’s equity interest in the property
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:25 AM   #69
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I guess I was the last person to know about:

TANF
Supplemental Security Income
Earned Income Tax Credit
Housing Assistance

... and that while the Federal Government funds these benefits, the states administer the programs, with some states going beyond the government benefits.

https://www.thebalance.com/welfare-p...d-list-3305759

Now that I understand what each of these programs offers, and the qualification rules, I feel safer about the possibilities that some day, we'd have to live in a tent. Better to know now, than when something happens.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:32 AM   #70
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That is true, but with both spouses alive, the spousal benefit does increase the total household SS income.
Right- if the household SS is 150% of the larger wage earner's primary amount (100% for the wage earner plus 50% Spousal benefit), after the death of either partner, SS goes down to 100% of the primary amount, so a 1/3 decrease. (This is for the case where the spouse is not entitled to higher benefits on his/her own record.) The Survivor Benefit from a pension can decrease, too- even without the Spouse's signature it's usually possible to elect SOME decreased Survivor benefit in return for a higher amount while the wage earner is alive- I think with mine I could elect a 75% Survivor benefit without DH signing off on it.

And yes you'd hope that couples would discuss "what-ifs" and talk about these decisions but it doesn't always happen.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:40 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
I guess I was the last person to know about:

TANF
Supplemental Security Income
Earned Income Tax Credit
Housing Assistance

... and that while the Federal Government funds these benefits, the states administer the programs, with some states going beyond the government benefits.

Now that I understand what each of these programs offers, and the qualification rules, I feel safer about the possibilities that some day, we'd have to live in a tent. Better to know now, than when something happens.
Good. I was hoping to relieve some of the anxiety that may be stirred up by this thread by making my post.

Be sure to perform your own due diligence on these safety net programs and understand that availability may vary by location/state, government funding level, and changes in law.

-gauss
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:45 AM   #72
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Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (if your income is low enough), meals on wheels.

Most communities have subsidized elderly housing. We have possibility just a half mile from our current house, I believe the rent is capped at 30% of income.

I don't expect that I'd be starving, homeless, or dying of an easily treatable illness.

That's all fine until I need a nursing home. I'm not thrilled about ending my days in a Medicaid-only facility.


My aunt lived in a small town subsidized housing apartment. She had SS and Medicare but not Medicaid.

I served as her executor. She gave me permission sell her car right after she went into a nursing home. That money was added to her bank account. I paid all of her bills.

I spoke with someone about when should I begin worrying about signing up for Medicaid. She asked how much money was left and I told her and she laughed. She told me not to be concerned until about $10k was left.

My aunt was in the nursing home probably a year or two. She was in the hospital a few times while living in the nursing home. Every time she was dismissed from the hospital she required skilled nursing care and that was covered by Medicare for 90 days. So that saved 90 days of her money from being spent from her bank account every time she was dismissed from the hospital.

By the time she died, she still had $100,000. I have no idea if the Medicare rules about 90 day coverage is still the same today but probably is.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:54 AM   #73
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This thread reminds me of a story in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel a number of years ago about a 100-year-old woman who was working as a greeter at Walmart. Unfortunately, she had some 70-year-old ideas about racial relations that got her and a customer into an altercation that brought in the law.

Hope you all can connect to this link -- it's an archived story.

Thwarting theft part of job for Wal-Mart greeter, 100
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:01 AM   #74
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I wonder about people who might not have the mental acuity (or family members willing to help out and who have mental acuity) to manage and coordinate the social safety net pieces which do exist.

My Dad is 82 now and either can't or doesn't want to understand his taxes (granted, they're complicated) and has put all of his payments and income on auto-pilot so he doesn't forget. I've even given up on trying to unsubscribe him from Amazon Prime, because he buys stuff there and accidentally keeps resubscribing (granted, Amazon makes it easy to make this mistake). I'm not sure how he'd do if he didn't have me looking over his shoulder. To be clear, he has asked me to do so and appreciates my help.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:05 AM   #75
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My aunt was in the nursing home probably a year or two. She was in the hospital a few times while living in the nursing home. Every time she was dismissed from the hospital she required skilled nursing care and that was covered by Medicare for 90 days. So that saved 90 days of her money from being spent from her bank account every time she was dismissed from the hospital.

By the time she died, she still had $100,000. I have no idea if the Medicare rules about 90 day coverage is still the same today but probably is.
Yes, Medicare does still pay for "rehab" after you're discharged from a hospital. There are horror stories here too, though. Apparently it's possible for a hospital to admit you "for observation", even if you stay there for a couple of nights. In that case, you were never admitted, so Medicare doesn't cover rehab. The other is Medicaid patients being sent to the hospital from the nursing home and then they find when they're discharged that their bed has been occupied by another Medicaid patient and they have nowhere to go. In your Aunt's case, she was self-pay so that was less of a risk.

I'm a bit wary of the whole business of nursing homes and Medicaid. My Uncle developed Alzheimer's and my Aunt, after years of heroically trying to keep him at home, got him into a nursing home. They had enough money that he'd be able to self-pay for a couple of years but of course he went into a Medicaid bed (basically a room for two with a curtain between) immediately.

As my Aunt was getting to the point that their savings had dwindled down to the point that he'd qualify for Medicaid (and my Aunt was losing sleep over her own financial future), the nursing home suddenly jacked up the rates- like 30%. She put him in another nursing home and shortly after that she was told that there was not much else they could do for him and they were giving him palliative care only. He died about a month later. I'd visited him 6 months before and even then he was out of it most of the time.

Did nursing home #1 increase the rates to get Uncle out before they had to accept significantly-lower Medicaid reimbursements? Did nursing home #2 decide it was time for palliative care only because Uncle was close to relying on Medicaid?

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:15 AM   #76
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Yes, Medicare does still pay for "rehab" after you're discharged from a hospital. There are horror stories here too, though. Apparently it's possible for a hospital to admit you "for observation", even if you stay there for a couple of nights. In that case, you were never admitted, so Medicare doesn't cover rehab.
Information that could save you money:

Are You a Hospital Inpatient or Outpatient? If You Have Medicare – Ask!
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:36 AM   #77
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My mother in law died broke in the nursing home. We prepaid her funeral to get her net worth below 2 grand so Medical would take her.

So yeah, it happens and I know first hand. But she did not die in the street or starving or uncared for. She died of complications of heart failure.
I was going to say to the OP you could also have children who would make sure you didn't end your life in such straits as you've described above. I did that for my mother. She and her husband had pretty much nothing. She was diagnosed with cancer and I made sure I had funds to be able to support her towards the end in a group home, cover her supplemental insurance for any hospital visits and then pay for someone to clean and care for her at her home until she was unable to stay there.

So, saving money and LBYM can also allow you to take care of your parents, if need be. The other route is what @RobbieB described. Team effort.....
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:49 AM   #78
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Several have mentioned subsidized housing as an option and I would second that.

I would look into a low income housing tax credit community to live in. Most of these communities are technically not subsidized housing but they are income restricted and have capped rents on them. The government gives tax credits to developers for building affordable/rent restricted housing.

You can do a quick google search and determine that these are all over the place, with many of them being senior only properties. For a good amount of these properties, you would never guess that they are affordable properties (they seem like market rate properties).

Not a bad set up if you are paying $300-$400 a month on rent (including utilities), have SS income of $800-$1000 a month, and a nest egg of $400k. Sure, you might only be taking home $30k a year from SS and your nest egg, but when you only pay $400-$500 a month for housing, you still got $2k left over every month to do what you want with. These types of scenarios are not uncommon in these communities.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:10 AM   #79
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My good friend was in a nursing home and I was her guardian once her husband died. I put her in a home that would accept Medicaid once her money ran out. As her care needs increased the fee doubled. Once her money ran out the home accepted what income she had coming in until Medicaid kicked in. They even helped us apply for it. I was legally allowed to pre-pay funeral expenses by Medicaid. This couple had plenty of money and health insurance. Yet 8 bouts of cancer for her and all the chemo gave her early Alzheimer’s and his bouts with cancer left them broke.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:09 PM   #80
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I've mentioned this before, but I am currently helping an older female relative who because of financial constraints didn't sign up for Medicare Part B until this year (I also got her to sign up for Plan G & a drug plan)

She was supposed to have spinal surgery (stabilizing fractured vertebrae) last week, but the surgery will now never happen.

Once in hospital they discovered she has stage IV breast cancer, metastases into bone.

Advanced enough that they're only going to do radiation (no surgery or chemo)

She will be discharged to rehab in a few days, but realistically I'm afraid she'll need nursing care once she leaves rehab (within 100 days, IIRC)

Her only income is SS retirement & dividends from a modest inheritance (though I know she's spent a chunk) so I expect we'll soon be visiting Medicaid SNFs.
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