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Old 12-21-2012, 02:50 AM   #21
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As a newbie I wonder why "Schwab rates it a C (from A to F)" since I consider, between 7-8% an above average return.
It is, but you totally ignore the other side of the coin: Risk. There is a reason why this company has to offer such a high yield to investors.
Think about it this way: Greek 10-Year government bonds are currently yielding around 12%. Should they therefore have an 'A' rating?
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:45 AM   #22
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After looking at Preferred Stocks I discovered that I would prefer not to own them. For the wild part of my portfolio I put a little in VG Hi Yld (junk). To each his own
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:21 AM   #23
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Your FA asks if you want a product you don't understand, and you tell us that from the reading you have done so far you think you will never understand the product, and you (or some undisclosed person) has fired your FA. Yet you still are interested in investing in this confusing product? Why?
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:19 AM   #24
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I want to thank everyone for their reply; I’ll try to answer as many questions as I can.

Growing Older
Thanks for the advice, the reason we let our advisor go had nothing to do with this or any fund.

haha
I appreciate the time you took to help answer my question as I know it’s not an area of interest to you. From what I gather, the risks are too high.

Lowflyer
Thanks for the link, I’ll read it after I finish this post. As mentioned, the only reason I mentioned not having an advisor anymore is because I knew one of the first posts would be, “why not ask your advisor”

Meadbh
Thanks for the link and do my own research……..got it.

NW-Bound
Thanks………Advice is always appreciated. I got the preferred shares but it seems they’re not that inviting.

Rbmrtn
It’s always nice to get different perspectives, thanks for the reply.

RISP
I understand now about how risk affects the rating, thanks.

Foxfirev5
I keep reading about Vanguard and so far I don’t think I’ve read any negatives. I need to read up on them. Thanks for the reply.

Doneff
All my friends have an advisor, when I’ve asked what they’re invested in, they really don’t know. The reason I said I would never understand this product was due to sheer frustration. I understand you have no idea what I’ve been through during the month of December whether it be financially or personal, (I’m sure you don’t really care) but I guess you took it literally. In the last week I’ve spent so much time trying to figure out answers to financial questions as I don’t have an advisor at the moment that I’ve been working on 3 hours sleep per night. Unfortunately people are not very productive and life can’t be put on hold. The fact that it’s Christmas time doesn’t help the situation. My objective for this thread was to ask for advice from fellow members so that it would save me wasted time should I be researching in the wrong direction.
Again, I find your post built up some frustration once again, it has nothing to do with you personally, it’s just lack of sleep.
Thanks for your replies everyone and please bear with me as I don’t have time to reread my post, I can only hope it makes sense as I’m off to drive my daughter to school.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:48 AM   #25
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Seems the general consensus is preferreds are not for you. They have interest rate risk, which is heightened because current rates are so low, No growth potential in the dividend or stock price. Preferreds are usually bought by other companies because they get heavy tax breaks, or by those seeking the income like insurance comapanies, trust funds etc.

People get ripped off every day by "contractors", high paid experts, be they financial advisors, doctors, plumbers, auto repair shops, whatever mostly because people have no idea what they are being told. Sometimes you are stuck, sometimes you can educate yourself on the issue.

You would probably be better with just a balanced portfolio of index funds or even a target fund till you get a better handle on things.

Have look at the "lazy" portfolios, simple to use...

Invest Simple with Lazy Portfolios - MarketWatch.com
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:20 AM   #26
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MyDream -- Sorry if I seemed to be negative. I recognize that most investors don't understand what they are doing -- I was in that category for many years and still don't understand lots of financial matters. Maybe better than asking why you would pursue this investment given the confusion you mentioned would be to ask, why rush into any new investment? Is there some crisis that forces you to take action now? Or can you take some time to wind down and learn some basics and then decide how you want to invest? There is plenty of decent advice to be found here -- better in my opinion that getting a new FA. And for most people, most of the time, doing nothing is a better decision than jumping into things they don't understand.
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:52 AM   #27
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MyDream -- Sorry if I seemed to be negative. I recognize that most investors don't understand what they are doing -- I was in that category for many years and still don't understand lots of financial matters. Maybe better than asking why you would pursue this investment given the confusion you mentioned would be to ask, why rush into any new investment? Is there some crisis that forces you to take action now? Or can you take some time to wind down and learn some basics and then decide how you want to invest? There is plenty of decent advice to be found here -- better in my opinion that getting a new FA. And for most people, most of the time, doing nothing is a better decision than jumping into things they don't understand.
Agreed - but this is the same advice he got in Jan of this year (look at the thread I linked earlier). If he had spent a few hours a day, for a week (if even that) back then looking at the 'Couch Potato Investments', everything would be on auto-pilot, and 3 hours sleep issues would not be an issue.

He said ETFs, index and target funds were too confusing for him, but now he's looking into individual preferred stocks, which are a far more complex product to evaluate.

After seeing this thread, and the deja vu' component from that earlier thread, I think this is a case of 'you can lead a horse to water'....

Good luck My Dream, I hope you can wake up from your dream and start to see the light.

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Old 12-21-2012, 08:52 AM   #28
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I just got back and now I'm on my way to help with my father in law that is in a wheel chair. He needs to be washed, feed, exercised etc, long term care doesn't have an opening yet and my m-i-l has a doctor’s appointment, needs to do her grocery and Christmas shopping. Then it's off to care for my own father so I'm typing as quickly as I can which isn't fast at all. Enough of my personal life.


rbmrtn

I'll have to put the link in my favorites and read later, again thanks for your help.

doneff

As mentioned you didn't know the reason for the question and time didn't allow me an explanation therefore, I understand answers are based on very limited information. Your reply wasn't surprising, yet with my limited patience at the moment, I knew it didn't add value to my ultimate goal hence my reply. That was my fault of which I should apologize.

Learning to rebuild an engine, or redoing a bathroom came easy as I'm very mechanically inclined, therefore I can't fault those that don't even want to take the time to learn how to change their own oil, yet complain when they feel they've been taken by their mechanic. I've answered thousands of thread in automotive forums over the years for those in such a case. I was hoping for a pay it forward in this forum.

I started this thread to gain information on some aspects of my portfolio since I have a meeting with my FAers boss this evening at their request. I wanted to be better prepared, this is one question I knew would take me a lot of research and getting valuable information on this forum helped me reduce the amount of research and allow me a couple more hours of much needed sleep. I know they want me to try another FA and I'm open to getting different opinions/options, but I also don't want to sign on the dotted line at the moment, as I want to be better prepared. Almost like a crash course before an interview.

There are many members on this forum that I respect, yes, including you, and I have the desire to learn, I just don't want to be on the defensive whenever I start a new thread.

Again, thanks everyone and Merry Christmas, oh and to be politically correct, Happy Holidays.

I just read ERD50 post and I don't dissagree, with that said, maybe I need to step away from this forum as I get the impression I'm waisting fellow members valuable time.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:33 AM   #29
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I just got back and now I'm on my way to help with my father in law that is in a wheel chair. He needs to be washed, feed, exercised etc, long term care doesn't have an opening yet and my m-i-l has a doctor’s appointment, needs to do her grocery and Christmas shopping. Then it's off to care for my own father so I'm typing as quickly as I can which isn't fast at all. Enough of my personal life.



I just read ERD50 post and I don't dissagree, with that said, maybe I need to step away from this forum as I get the impression I'm waisting fellow members valuable time.
You're not wasting anyone's time so don't worry about it and good luck with your FIL.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:41 AM   #30
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There is a simple statement from Warren Buffet that you should follow..

If you do not understand it, do not invest in it...

So, since you do not understand pref stock, do not invest in them...

Simple..

Why are you trying to make it so complicated


BTW, having a meeting and making a decision does not have to coincide.. you can WAIT to make your investment... it will probably be there next month... or the next... or the next etc.....
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #31
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I just read ERD50 post and I don't dissagree, with that said, maybe I need to step away from this forum as I get the impression I'm waisting fellow members valuable time.
No, you are actually asking a lot of questions some people are afraid to ask.

You do sound like the type that probably could use a good FA. Some people are not up to being a DIY investor. Finding a good conservative FA is the key though. Asking around is probably the best way to find one and check as many references as possible.

Best of luck.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:11 AM   #32
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You do sound like the type that probably could use a good FA. Some people are not up to being a DIY investor. Finding a good conservative FA is the key though. Asking around is probably the best way to find one and check as many references as possible.

Best of luck.
If, per ERD's post, the OP got the advice to pursue a couch potato portfolio almost a year ago, I would have to agree that he does seem have been led to the water trough this forum is best equipped to guide him to and hasn't bothered to drink. In that case, it is probably true that he could use a good FA. Unfortunately, the odds of selecting a good one out of the pack are slim unless you do a lot of research first. By then you probably know enough to conclude you should start moving to a couch potato portfolio on your own.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:21 AM   #33
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I think the OP is easily frustrated with financial matters and gives up too easily, with his own research as well as with numerous FAs. He must be a difficult client, because he does not trust anyone. Many people on this forum have tried to help the OP. I for one have done my share and am now adding the OP to my ignore list.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:22 AM   #34
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You're not wasting anyone's time so don't worry about it and good luck with your FIL.
+1 The last thing the OP should worry about is wasting our time. Everyone here posts of their own free accord. We're just trying to help - the OP is in a rough spot right now, and it is really a shame that he is also taking it upon himself to deal with financial issues at the same time.

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There is a simple statement from Warren Buffet that you should follow..

If you do not understand it, do not invest in it...

So, since you do not understand pref stock, do not invest in them...

Simple..
Absolutely!


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Why are you trying to make it so complicated
This is what is so confounding to me. He says it is all so complex, but it seems he is making it complex. Something like 'Couch Potato' is simple. Not investing in things you don't understand is simple. Focus on that - ignore all this other noise.


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You do sound like the type that probably could use a good FA. ...
I gotta disagree on this. Look back at the older thread - he has 'fired' 14 FA's. I've said it before - it is more difficult to determine if an FA is doing a good job for you than it is to DIY. You need to understand the basics to evaluate the FA. With that knowledge, just DIY! A middleman just complicates things.

Since the OP is a car guy, maybe this comparison will help:

Imagine a friend of yours, who knows nothing about autos/mechanics, bought a very expensive sports car. He's showing it off to you, and says ' you know, I've been reading up on lubricating oils, boy is this stuff complex! There's all these number ranges, something about viscosity, synthetics versus something else, blends, detergents and a bunch of additives, a whole bunch of other numbers that have to do with service ratings, and everyone claims their oil is better. I've been reading about shear strengths and I have hundreds of pages of lab reports to go through! I've been following some of the car forums, and there are dozens of different opinions on what oil is best! I can't take it - so I'm just not going to get my oil changed! Ever! I went to a bunch of mechanics and told them I want an oil that I don't have to change, but none of them would give me the answer I wanted - so I fired them!'

Wouldn't you suggest that your friend go back to basics? Just read the manual, see what oil they recommend, and change it based on the manual. And enjoy the car. Simple.

Something like "The Couch Potato" investor can be your manual. Simple.

-ERD50
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:26 AM   #35
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Hi Newbie, from a fellow canuck. Don't take a lot of the vitriol personally. I've been watching this board for a long time and there are some curmudgeons on here who like to give people (especially newbies) a hard time. Especially if they ask what they perceive to be "naive" questions or the same question more than once. Never mind that though, there are people like that everywhere in life. The other 99% of people on here are great and you will learn a lot. Water/ducks back.

That quote from Donheff is gold. "And for most people, most of the time, doing nothing is a better decision than jumping into things they don't understand." If your personal life is in turmoil right now, you are better off just doing nothing for a little while and letting things settle than getting wrapped up the sales pitch from your FA or his/her firm. Especially if they are pushing you into or suggesting investments you don't understand. You MUST understand your investments. The only person who will ever really care about them and how they perform is you...

There is also a Canadian version of this forum at Financial Webring Forum • Index page
Lots of good info there too. Warning though: they get even more technical than here and the curmudgeon ratio is a little higher even !! ; o )

Also, you should read a little about Transalta. Bit of a risky play according to a lot of people... TransAlta tempts, but risks remain - The Globe and Mail

...although they signed a deal to operate the new gas plant in Ontario that Mr. McDalton
is having us pay for twice......
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:36 AM   #36
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...
Also, you should read a little about Transalta. Bit of a risky play according to a lot of people... TransAlta tempts, but risks remain - The Globe and Mail...
That link is a very good explanation of the high dividend yield of this stock. Last night, I saw that its dividend was 88% of earnings. At such high payout, I wonder how it could retain enough earnings to pursue expansion programs that were talked about. The high DRIP ratio explains how they could do it.

By the way, no matter how tempting a stock is, I never put more than 5% in any single position. In fact, the highest value single stock I hold is Berkshire Hathaway at 2.5% of portfolio, and that is not even a true single stock.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:42 AM   #37
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... Don't take a lot of the vitriol personally. I've been watching this board for a long time and there are some curmudgeons on here who like to give people (especially newbies) a hard time. ....
Help me out here. Where is/are the 'vitriol' and/or 'curmudgeons' or any post that shows anyone who seems to 'like to give people (especially newbies) a hard time.'?

All I see is people trying to help. The OP doesn't seem to like the answers.

Am I wrong?

A recent post mentioned putting the OP on their 'ignore list', and that is coming from someone who has always been patient, helpful and polite on this forum. That should say something. Heck, she doesn't even have me on her ignore list!

-ERD50
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:45 AM   #38
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Heck, she doesn't even have me on her ignore list!
Are you sure?
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:41 PM   #39
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MichaelB ,

Thanks, as for my fil, he’s become much more than my mil can handle. He’s going into depression since he believes he’s a burden and unfortunately he can’t answer open questions anymore. I know he just forgot about what unconditional love is since he’s lost his way. My father has schizophrenia for most of his life and is heavily medicated so luckily I have more time with him; I just have to make the most of it.

Texas Proud,

I believe Warren Buffet was referring to those investors that manage their own portfolio, not those that need to trust there FA to do manage their portfolio. Have you ever asked those clients if they understand every fund they’re invested in, I’d say maybe less than 10% do since I know many don’t even know what they’re invested in. I couldn’t imagine giving either parents Warren Buffets advice since they simply didn’t understand and had no desire, therefore trust in there advisor was key.
I didn’t mean to try to make it complicated, I just wanted to be part of the 10% that’s trying to understand, albeit at a very slow pace, but I figured no question is a stupid question, although I know some will disagree with that. Eventually my plan is to make all my own financial decisions; I just don’t know how long that will take as my spare time is limited based on my commitments, and sorry family doesn’t come second.

Dawg52,

I know you’ve helped me in the past and I thank you for your reply again. I know I should have made our finances a priority during the last year but………. I made my family the priority. One of the reasons I retired early is I was slowly losing them, I know I can’t take back the past, but I can dam well try to make up for it in any way I could. This year I had to rely on my FA as I made several promises to all my family which I plan to keep even if it means losing some money. Maybe some of you don’t understand, but you’re not here to judge as I’ve never had that right either. I was lucky in that some advisors in the past admitted fault even though they came highly recommended, so I was able to learn from their mistakes.

doneff,

At this point in my life, I agree I need a good FA, and there is no sense in making excuses.

Meadbh,

You’ve already judged me and I’ve been placed on ignore, therefore, I need to ask myself why I’m even replying since even though advisors have admitted fault on several occasion, as you say, “He must be a difficult client, because he does not trust anyone”.

ERD50,

I believe my frustration is making it more complicated for me, the fact that I maybe making it more complicated in my thread, well that’s no joy either.

For the car guy analogy, this actually did happen and this is the direction I took. The first thing I did before giving any advice is to get them to calm down. I then asked if they wanted me to help educate them since it can get a bit confusing although with the right direction it doesn’t have to be. Since they asked that I help educate, I started off by stating never changing your oil is not one that should ever be considered. Then I started to explain how all engines are not created equal in that a Mazda RX7 rotary engine isn’t the same as there Corvette LS9 engine, therefore require different oils not only based on their engine, but also driving habits and time of year. I then explained that the mechanics recommendation was incorrect in that they requested you use the oil in the owner’s manual but you didn’t mention that you race your car at Canadian Tire Mosport Park which will break down your oil much quicker based on the added friction created by taking your engine to its limits. I would then make sure we were both on the same page and they had the information needed to make wise decisions re there oil.

You see, the automotive owner’s manual is a guideline, the factor service manual is the bible and at around 1000 pages on some cars it has much more in-depth information based on many different variables. Simply recommending to refer the manual may not be the right answer as there are more than one manual. Being a newbie, this person wouldn’t have known this, but an experienced licensed auto mechanic should have asked more questions mainly based on this car being built to be driven on a track, therefore different grades of oil should be used based on driving habits being only one factor. I also wouldn’t have handed them the 3 book FSM and recommended they do their own research, since they came to me for advice, rather than direction, after all I wouldn’t expect that of others if I were in the same situation. If in the future they wanted to learn everything about their car, then the FSM manual was always available to them and my help came with it.

Koogie,

Thanks for the encouraging words, I am a member of FWF and can relate to what you’re saying, recently I received a pm from an undisclosed member apologizing for some of the harsh word in one of my threads. I don’t have thick skin but do realize I have to take the heat if I want to remain part of both forums. It’s been said by some members that there are those that don’t realize that some of their posts can be harsh to newbies or anyone for that matter. Sort of reminds me of a time I sat in a sexual harassment suit, where as “unwanted behavior” was the critical word. Ya see the person doing the harassment didn’t see anything wrong with their actions, (maybe since they weren’t on the receiving end) even after it was explained to them. They were charged with the offense.

Thanks for the link, but it will have to be on hold as I’m on my way to my parents place to watch over my father.

NW-Bound,

Thank you for both your reply and recommendation.

ERD50,

Yes I do see the help that is being offered, unfortunately it sometimes comes with baggage and just as some members get frustrated with my posts, it works both ways.

“Help me out here”, where did I say, “I don’t seem to like the answers”, I could carry this much further but I have to ask whether there is any advantage to either one of us, or this forum, and to me the answer is clear.…..No! Since I have nothing to gain by doing so.

NW-Bound,

Thanks for adding humor to this thread, it’s welcome.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:50 PM   #40
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Are you sure?
Yeah, I seem to remember some replies recently. So that leaves her, you, and the mods (who have no choice, as I understand it).


-ERD50
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