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Re: What Women Want
Old 12-31-2006, 11:00 PM   #61
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by Khan
I too do not get it.

Mine's about 1000sf and I wish it was less.
I do not get it either. Must be one of those oneupmanship things, i.e. status symbols, to feel good about oneself. It just doesn't compute otherwise. More to heat, more to maintain, more taxes, more to clean, etc. etc.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 12:39 AM   #62
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by firewhen
This is probably generational. When we were growing up, in the 60/70's, almost none of the moms worked, and that was the role models we had--husbands as breadwinners and wives with the kids. It all changed after that, where a majority of mothers with children are working today. These women were in the earlier generation and they and their husbands expectations were already set and probably will never change.
I'm a little late to this thread (been out of town a couple of days). But firewhen's post matches my thinking pretty closely.

I was the family breadwinner many years ago while my then-husband quit his job to focus exclusively on his PhD degree. Unfortunately for me, he found that going to school was much more enjoyable than working and sought -- consciously or unconsciously -- to make his degree work last as many years as possible. And the relationship slowly fell apart, divorce papers were filed, and we split my paycheck down the middle for much of our final year when we were legally separated but still married. When the final day approached that he would no longer receive 1/2 of my paycheck, I found it interesting the sense of dread and foreboding that he was willing to express out loud to me, about how "frightening" it would be when that twice-monthly check stopped arriving into the checking account.

I can't help but see similarities between my non-working husband and the non-working wives described by 2B. Like them, my ex-husband wanted to maintain his leisure and freedom so badly that he could not or would not look at the consequences that his choice was having on his spouse. To look at those consequences would have forced him to change his lifestyle. Sounds a lot like the wives in 2B's posting . . .
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 12:49 AM   #63
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by SlowTwitcher
Anyone for mandatory prenup?
I am getting married in just 5 months and considering a prenup.
I'm sure my fiance will not be so happy about it, but I just saw on the Suze Orman show that if a spouse opens a credit card (even if with their name only), and something happens to them (or does not pay), the other will be responsible for it. That freaked me out!

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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 02:43 AM   #64
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by mmg2681
I am getting married in just 5 months and considering a prenup.
I'm sure my fiance will not be so happy about it, but I just saw on the Suze Orman show that if a spouse opens a credit card (even if with their name only), and something happens to them (or does not pay), the other will be responsible for it. That freaked me out!

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Prenup won't change this... it is for when you get divorced who get's what... if you are still married you are under your state laws...
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 06:08 AM   #65
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Re: What Women Want

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmg2681
I am getting married in just 5 months and considering a prenup.
I'm sure my fiance will not be so happy about it, but I just saw on the Suze Orman show that if a spouse opens a credit card (even if with their name only), and something happens to them (or does not pay), the other will be responsible for it. That freaked me out!

~M
Well maybe. Depends on what state you live in. If you are in a community property state, probably yes. In Minnesota, which is not community property, you are only liable for the necessities of life for you spouse. Ticky tack bought on a credit card would not count. It is generally thought to be food, housing, and maybe medical bills.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 07:52 AM   #66
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by Martha
Well maybe. Depends on what state you live in. If you are in a community property state, probably yes. In Minnesota, which is not community property, you are only liable for the necessities of life for you spouse.
I live in Ohio.
Not a community property state.

Thank you.

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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 08:56 AM   #67
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Re: What Women Want

With my wife and daughter I have two extremes - my daughter is very focused, my wife totally unfocused, to the point she admits she is emotionally disturbed and probably needs therapy. I have her "wish of the week' as I call it - wishes she was rich, not working, more house, different car, horse farm, like everyone else, but not really. She functions well on a daily basis but occasionally "panics" when at home. I suspect something like mild borderline personality but my daughter thinks more of a generalized panic disorder.

Or as my daughter says "this is just normal to me, shes been like this all my life".
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 09:28 AM   #68
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by rmark
With my wife and daughter I have two extremes - my daughter is very focused, my wife totally unfocused, to the point she admits she is emotionally disturbed and probably needs therapy. I have her "wish of the week' as I call it - wishes she was rich, not working, more house, different car, horse farm, like everyone else, but not really. She functions well on a daily basis but occasionally "panics" when at home. I suspect something like mild borderline personality but my daughter thinks more of a generalized panic disorder.

Or as my daughter says "this is just normal to me, shes been like this all my life".
I am sorry you have to go through this...
I must admit, I've been to therapy, and it has been mentioned that I have BPD. What I think it great-is that you've stuck by your wife through this. I know it hasnt been easy - as we are nice to everyone around us, but not to those we love.

At my doctor's office, they mention "camps" that you go to for a month to "re-work" how your brain thinks. I must say, BPD is tiring. It is like your brain will not shut off. It's like you are compulsive until a breakdown, and then all you can do is cry and sleep from the depression for days at a time.

For me, I refused to go to the camp...as my BPD is not as bad as many others (or maybe I'm still in denial). I AM actively trying to correct it myself by trying to think before speaking, and to take my medication (Lexapro for anxiety). Downfall to Lexapro : you dont feel like being intimate with your partner. Which then creates MORE anxiety because one feels like they are not meeting the needs of their partner. You see, it is a cycle...and is not easy for anyone in the family.

I am really sorry you and your daughter have to go through this...

~M
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 09:53 AM   #69
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by mmg2681
For me, I refused to go to the camp...as my BPD is not as bad as many others (or maybe I'm still in denial). I AM actively trying to correct it myself by trying to think before speaking, and to take my medication (Lexapro for anxiety).
I don't know who suffers more from BPD-- the patients or the people who have to cope with them.

I worked with a guy like that for a couple of the worst years of my life. He could walk into a quiet, smooth-running room and leave it in a pulse-pounding uproar within 10 minutes. I was deemed to have some moderating influence ("No, you're gonna sit down and shut the %^&* up for a few minutes while the rest of us share our thoughts too") but after I left that command he went completely off the rails. When his ranting act ended up in the CO's office he was quickly transferred to another command and pointed straight toward retirement. I learned a tremendous amount of self-control from him, but I hope he's found a place where he won't have to inflict himself on society.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 10:07 AM   #70
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Re: What Women Want

I understand from talking to a psychologist friend that BPD is way over diagnosed so rmark's wife may very well have other issues, such as an anxiety disorder.

For those who live with someone or who know someone with BPD, I recommend the book Stop Walking on Eggshells by Mason and Kreger.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 11:04 AM   #71
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Re: What Women Want

I suspect some anxiety disorder, probably not a true borderline personality. She knows she over reacts emotionally, but can't stop herself from doing so.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 12:12 PM   #72
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Re: What Women Want

Are some people in this threat using BPD for borderline personality disorder, while others thing it stands for bipolar disease? I'm confused.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 12:28 PM   #73
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Re: What Women Want

I'm confused too, Rich. But what do we know, we're not psychiatrists!

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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 12:29 PM   #74
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by Martha
Well maybe. Depends on what state you live in. If you are in a community property state, probably yes. In Minnesota, which is not community property, you are only liable for the necessities of life for you spouse. Ticky tack bought on a credit card would not count. It is generally thought to be food, housing, and maybe medical bills.
And.... it depends on what state you live in WHEN YOU GET DIVORCED, not when you get married. Married couples can move around a lot from state to state. You might get married in a non-community property state. But say you later move to a community property state and after six months either one of you can walk over to the courthouse and fill out a 2-page complaint for divorce then both of you are now stuck with the community property rules of that state. And when you are thinking about moving to a new state, are you really going to read up on the divorce laws before you move there or will you be talking about the pros and cons of that new job, new school, or living closer to family?

Personally, I wish I wasn't so conversant about divorce, spousal support, child support, child custody, family court, inter-state jurisdiction issues, etc etc. it just sucks.

(edited for clarification)
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 02:21 PM   #75
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Re: What Women Want

I read this forum almost everyday, but never post as I'm only here to learn. I'm 59 years old and my husband is 63. Before we had children my husband and I each worked about sixty hours a week, but after the kids arrived I was a stay-at-home mom and now am a stay-at-home grandma. We live in a 3400 sq. ft. house we built ourselves and plan on adding another 600 sq. ft. in the near future. It has nothing to do with being a status symbol. We use every sq. st. and love every sq. ft. We have wonderful memories of our children and grandchildren playing in our house and running through our 15 acres. We also have great memories of grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, friends, sitting around our table enjoying family meals, playing board and card games, visiting around our fireplace. We've had cookouts and games outside. Holidays are a special time here. We've walked the trails in our woods. We've shared happy times and supported each other in difficult times in this place. This is not just a house to us, it's our home and we love what it's been to us, and what we hope it will continue to be. "There's no place like home" is real to us. My husband never made me feel guilty for not working outside our home. He was happy making me happy. I returned his kindness by always keeping his home a good place for him to be when he wasn't at work. He's never cooked, cleaned, done laundry, gotten up in the middle of the night with kids. We have 15 acres, with about 1/3 lawn. I've always mowed the lawn, painted the house and outbuildings inside and out when they need it. Cleared trails through the woods, piled firewood, piled lumber (we had our own sawmill). Just because I've stayed home I haven't been lazy. If I'd continued working, I don't think either of us would have been as content as we've been because we would have been too busy to enjoy life's simple pleasures. We've both been extremely blessed in our lives, and I think we can both say we've had what we wanted.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 03:12 PM   #76
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by Martha
I admit that I like living in nicer places with nicer things than Greg does. We would have been FI a lot sooner if I was as frugal as my spouse. But because I liked spending more than my spouse did, I kept working and he ER'd first.
Same situation here, although DW doesn't have significantly higher luxury requirements -- just a higher security threshold. Also, she worries that she may not be as "self sustaining" as me. She sees that I keep myself fully occupied but still worries what she "will do all day."
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 03:21 PM   #77
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Re: What Women Want

I can't imagine wanting luxury knowing that my partner's health was at stake from working. I have seen examples of this very thing, however.

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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 03:36 PM   #78
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Re: What Women Want

Twenty-three years ago my spouse and I had a fight.

Spouse: "I work hard. If I want to go do something fun on my vacation, I should be able to!"
Me: "We already did. We spent what we put aside for vacation. We're not spending any more."
Spouse: "That's ridiculous."
Me: "Fine!" I replied and threw the bank book and checkbook at my spouse. "You take care of all the finances then."

While sitting in the other room, I heard my spouse open the accounts and say "Uh, wow, we've got a lot of money in here." (Our son had just been born and we were trying to save for a bigger house at the time...and trust me, we didn't make much money then).

Me: "Yes, I know. Because we aren't spending it!"

Spouse: "Here" he said, handing the books back. "You're doing just fine."

We have never argued about money again. We will be retiring at 55 (6 years) and will be (I believe) be very comfortable. I have worked as many years as my spouse, make twice as much, and do all the budgeting, investing, etc, etc.

Not all women want husbands that will work forever to support them - but many women have been catered to for so many years, they have no idea how else to live. And there husbands have no one to blame but themselves.

Your response to wife #4 was spot-on! Get a job....

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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 07:02 PM   #79
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Are some people in this threat using BPD for borderline personality disorder, while others thing it stands for bipolar disease? I'm confused.
Nothing borderline about it-- bipolar disease!

Don, I split out the electrical question as "Human Electrical Resistance" and moved it to the "Other Topics" section of the board.
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Re: What Women Want
Old 01-01-2007, 08:24 PM   #80
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Re: What Women Want

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Are some people in this threat using BPD for borderline personality disorder, while others thing it stands for bipolar disease? I'm confused.
You might be right. I assumed borderline personality disorder because that is what rmark referred to in his post that started the discussion.
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