What's Driving Americans to Retire Abroad? Money -- or Lack of It

[nun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut Money may or may not be an issue. Retiring in France or England is going to cost quite a bit. On the other hand my British friend who retired to an Eastern European country says "I came for the cost of living, and stayed for the women." Having been to that country, I have to agree about both.

It will be very difficult for a US citizen to retire to the UK as the old retirement visa is not available. Even then you had to show a "close connection" to the UK. So unless you have a UK relative, spouse etc or are able to get a residence visa in another EU country retiring to the UK will be hard.

[kevink]

The Kaderlis have a great interview with a guy ER'd on what sounds like a very modest pension who's living well and adventurously for ~$500-700 a month:

Chris Smith Interview

We know several couples here in Mexico who are living well on $1500-2000 a month total in relatively expensive enclaves like San Miguel de Allende and Lake Chapala. Many if not most describe themselves as in part "health care refugees." Most still pay their Medicare premiums once they hit 65, but often only so as to have some sort of coverage on return visits to the U.S. (virtually all short-term travel insurance stops paying at 65 or 67).

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink The Kaderlis have a great interview with a guy ER'd on what sounds like a very modest pension who's living well and adventurously for ~$500-700 a month: Chris Smith Interview

Inteersting that he apparently prefers his cigars with the cellophane on.

Ha

[pasttense]

"A 65-year-old couple retiring in 2012 is estimated to need $240,000 to cover out-of-pocket medical expenses" Some of you seemed to have missed a basic point: A couple is two people, so that is $120,000 per person.

[kevink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pasttense "A 65-year-old couple retiring in 2012 is estimated to need $240,000 to cover out-of-pocket medical expenses" Some of you seemed to have missed a basic point: A couple is two people, so that is $120,000 per person.

Meaning, according to the "Average Net Worth of Americans by Age" thread just above this one, that an average 65 year old couple need only allocate half of their net worth (including real estate value) to out-of-pocket medical expenses. That's a uniquely American type of insanity for sure.

[NYEXPAT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink Meaning, according to the "Average Net Worth of Americans by Age" thread just above this one, that an average 65 year old couple need only allocate half of their net worth (including real estate value) to out-of-pocket medical expenses. That's a uniquely American type of insanity for sure.

And hence the reason for this thread and why so many are leaving!

[ShokWaveRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYEXPAT And hence the reason for this thread and why so many are leaving!

So WHY do so many Americans Oppose any form of Single Payer Medical System.....? Go Figure.

[nun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink The Kaderlis have a great interview with a guy ER'd on what sounds like a very modest pension who's living well and adventurously for ~$500-700 a month: Chris Smith Interview We know several couples here in Mexico who are living well on $1500-2000 a month total in relatively expensive enclaves like San Miguel de Allende and Lake Chapala. Many if not most describe themselves as in part "health care refugees." Most still pay their Medicare premiums once they hit 65, but often only so as to have some sort of coverage on return visits to the U.S. (virtually all short-term travel insurance stops paying at 65 or 67).

If most US retirees to Mexico continue to pay Medicare premiums, and presumably pay directly for some health care and drugs in Mexico, the out of pocket cost of US healthcare above the Medicare premiums must be pretty high.

The choice US retirees have if they move somewhere they qualify for the local health insurance system is whether to continue to pay Medicare premiums knowing that if they don't they will have to pay 10% greater premiums if they ever return to the US for every year they miss. If I retire to the UK my inclination would be to not pay Medicare and rely on the NHS, but if I ever wanted to move back to the US, say in my 70s or 80s, I end up paying enormous Medicare premiums.

[kevink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun If most US retirees to Mexico continue to pay Medicare premiums, and presumably pay directly for some health care and drugs in Mexico, the out of pocket cost of US healthcare above the Medicare premiums must be pretty high. The choice US retirees have if they move somewhere they qualify for the local health insurance system is whether to continue to pay Medicare premiums knowing that if they don't they will have to pay 10% greater premiums if they ever return to the US for every year they miss. If I retire to the UK my inclination would be to not pay Medicare and rely on the NHS, but if I ever wanted to move back to the US, say in my 70s or 80s, I end up paying enormous Medicare premiums.

For the people I've talked to, it's the fact that the penalty is indeed 10% per year that's the main issue. Clearly you'd be making the right decision to rely on NHS if you retire to the UK, but should you decide to visit the U.S. after age 67 you'd have the issue of being exposed to sky-high U.S. health care costs in the event of an emergency without the possibility of buying travel/trip insurance. For most expats I know here in Mexico family ties are strong and spending long stretches visiting the grandkids is a priority.

[ShokWaveRider]

In Canada, once you are 65 you pay $100 per year and EVERYTHING is covered. No Medicare Part a, b, c, j, r or Capital Q Etc.. EVERYTHING, No Deductable, Nada, Zilch, Zippo... and No it does not have to be a full moon either, Even Drugs are fully covered.

I am an advocate for Single Payer Systems, can you tell?

[nun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink For the people I've talked to, it's the fact that the penalty is indeed 10% per year that's the main issue. Clearly you'd be making the right decision to rely on NHS if you retire to the UK, but should you decide to visit the U.S. after age 67 you'd have the issue of being exposed to sky-high U.S. health care costs in the event of an emergency without the possibility of buying travel/trip insurance. For most expats I know here in Mexico family ties are strong and spending long stretches visiting the grandkids is a priority.

If I was resident in the UK and just visiting the US I'd buy travel insurance to cover me just like any other visitor form the UK.

[NYEXPAT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun If I was resident in the UK and just visiting the US I'd buy travel insurance to cover me just like any other visitor form the UK.

i think the point was already made that travel insurance will not cover medical after 67?

In SA most expats that can not get into the NHS, continue to use medicare and then have a private health insurance policy and a cancer policy (in country).

[nun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYEXPAT i think the point was already made that travel insurance will not cover medical after 67? In SA most expats that can not get into the NHS, continue to use medicare and then have a private health insurance policy and a cancer policy (in country).

So that would mean any visitor to the US over 67 would be risking crippling health bills if they had to be treated in the US. I can't believe that. You must be able to buy coverage in the UK for a trip to the US that will cover emergency treatment and the cost of a flight back to the UK and the loving arms of the NHS.


edit

PS I just Googled "UK travel insurance" and came up with a lots of travel insurance for people from age 65 to 85 that includes emergency medical care and repatriation costs.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider So WHY do so many Americans Oppose any form of Single Payer Medical System.....? Go Figure.

Right. Canadians wonder about this too. Also, you can buy health insurance for trips to the US but they only cover short periods. Permanent residence the US is entirely different and would require insurance much like Americans buy.

[NW-Bound]

Maybe Americans prefer a healthcare system more like the German or Swiss ones.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYEXPAT i think the point was already made that travel insurance will not cover medical after 67? In SA most expats that can not get into the NHS, continue to use medicare and then have a private health insurance policy and a cancer policy (in country).

We've had plenty of visitors from the UK, staying between 2 and 4 weeks who are over the age of 67 and they all managed to get travel insurance that covered them for health problems. When we were in the UK last year we visited one of those couples (an aunt and uncle) who are now in their 80's and they told us that they are now giving up traveling abroad anywhere because the health insurance is too expensive.

[rescueme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan When we were in the UK last year we visited one of those couples (an aunt and uncle) who are now in their 80's and they told us that they are now giving up traveling abroad anywhere because the health insurance is too expensive.

Health insurance or travel insurance (to cover only emergencies?).

Here's a U.K. plan that does not have an age limit (although you would have to make the decision if it would fit your needs):

Travel insurance over 65 | Age Concern is now Age UK

[kevink]

When I posted about people over 67 being excluded it was on the basis of policies from World Nomads and other popular travel insurance providers. Digging deeper, for non-U.S. residents I found this link courtesy of the well-regarded Trip Insurance Store:

Non-US resident Trip Cancellation & Interruption Plans | Trip Cancellation Travel Insurance for non-US Residents

The good news is one can get coverage up to age 89; the bad news is it will cost 35-50% of the total value of your trip! There are threads about this on Lonely Planet forums and elsewhere that make it very clear that prohibitively high insurance costs are "the pensioner's bane."

This thread is about Americans retiring abroad, not UK visitors visiting the U.S., and clearly Americans who choose to expatriate who want to visit the U.S. need to be very aware of the liability they expose themselves to should they return for visits without health insurance coverage.

[packrat44]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer69 My apologies wakinwood. didn't mean to step on your link!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan sounds painful

I hate it when that happens.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun If most US retirees to Mexico continue to pay Medicare premiums, and presumably pay directly for some health care and drugs in Mexico, the out of pocket cost of US healthcare above the Medicare premiums must be pretty high.

It all depends on what form your coverage takes. The cheapest is usually HMO care in a Medicare Advantage plan. One that I know about costs $19/ year above Medicare Pt B of $99. Copays vary from $25 to $75, depending on what is being done. There is also a deductible of several hundred $ and some cost sharing usually with a stop loss around $3000 to $3500.

Otherwise you can get a Medicare supplement plan. In my area these run $175-$225/mo, for the most popular plan Type F. Drug plans vary, but bottom end is $15-$20/mo, and the prices go up quite a bit from there for more complete benefits.

Ha