Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
When selling household items, cars...taxes? structuring?
Old 08-09-2015, 11:57 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,905
When selling household items, cars...taxes? structuring?

My wife is bugging the tar out of me worrying about taxes and structuring. Evidently she read some article about a guy who made several deposits under $10,000 and had his accounts seized by the IRS for structuring. I am telling her she is somewhat crazy, but figured I would come here and see what you guys think.

So we are selling stuff in preparation for selling our house, mostly on craigslist. Pool table we paid $3000 and sell for $1000 cash, deposit in the bank. Car we sell for $11,000 and deposit the money in the bank, then another car for $14,000 and deposit the money. Group of items for $4,000 and deposit the money. In almost every case, except possibly when we sell the pinball machines, we paid more for the items originally than we are selling them for.

Do you need to file a form with the IRS so they don't accuse you of structuring if you are making a few deposits under $10,000 but over $1,000?

Do you need to file a form if you sell a couple of cars for over $10,000 each?
__________________

__________________
Fermion is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-10-2015, 12:19 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,260
Seems like you are depositing money that you get at the time... a couple over the $10K mark... I do not see any structuring going on..


There has been scare stories... the ones that I have read were businesses that were making a whole lot more deposits than you....


I would not recommend doing what my sister did... split up a deposit and told the teller she knew about the $10K reporting.... I told her do not be stupid and admit to a crime...


Edit to add... you do not have to put the sales on your tax return since you cannot take a personal loss.... however, the gain should be...
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 02:09 AM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 393
If it scares you, just keep the cash and use it for normal expenses. It's not like you are losing interest. Of course, if it's a check you can't do that. Instead, you could keep a record of such transactions.
__________________
I'm not crazy. Honest, the judge had me tested.
Rick_Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 02:42 AM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 79
No way. Not even close, even if all of those transactions were in cash. (You weren't clear on that, and it matters, because almost all of the "structuring" issues are actually currency structuring issues.)

The banks file electronic forms every time you deposit or withdraw 10k at a time from an account. They fill out a zillion of these forms every day, and apparently no one pays them a whit of attention unless they're doing some kind of investigation of someone.

The bank employees can file another kind of form if they think you're playing games -- depositing, say, $9k every day to try to avoid having them fill out the boring zillions-of-forms-every-day forms above. When they fill one of those out, someone might take a look at what you're up to.

So, to be clear:

1. If you're transacting in non-cash, this whole thing is moot.
2. If you're transacting cash >10k, you're not capable of currency structuring, because every transaction is being reported.
3. If you're transacting cash on both sides of 10k, you're fine. You really have to be super sketchy with multiple borderline transactions to trigger a special report.

As for your questions,

Quote:
Do you need to file a form with the IRS so they don't accuse you of structuring if you are making a few deposits under $10,000 but over $1,000?
There's no such form. You can't pre-signal to the IRS that you're about to do something that looks sketchy but that's not really sketchy.

Quote:
Do you need to file a form if you sell a couple of cars for over $10,000 each?
Same answer.

Separate from currency structuring, though, if you ever get audited, someone might ask you to account for those large deposits. You might do well to keep records of your sales so you can account for the money. I think you'd really have to be in hot water in some other way to get to this point, though.
__________________
Symbiotic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 08:18 AM   #5
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbiotic View Post
So, to be clear:

1. If you're transacting in non-cash, this whole thing is moot.
2. If you're transacting cash >10k, you're not capable of currency structuring, because every transaction is being reported.
3. If you're transacting cash on both sides of 10k, you're fine. You really have to be super sketchy with multiple borderline transactions to trigger a special report.
+1

CTR (Currency Transaction Reports) must be filed by the bank when you deposit more than $10K in cash. "Structuring" is simply making multiple smaller cash deposits (at a single or multiple institutions) to intentionally keep each deposit under $10K and avoid having the bank fill out the form. If a bank suspects you are doing that, they must fill out a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) which could prompt FinCEN to investigate.

So continue to do what you're doing, and you should be fine. I would keep records of all of the transactions in case any questions do arise, though. Especially if you think you will have a gain on the sale of the pinball machines, which could trigger capital gains tax. That would no doubt be offset by the losses you are taking on the other items, so having all of the records would be helpful.
__________________
ChicagoGal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 08:34 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Senator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 3,045
It doesn't matter how much cash you deposit, it if it looks like structuring your account will be flagged. Deposit cash a few times that is out of a 'normal' pattern, you could get a call from the bank, Or a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) filed and turned into the IRS/FinCEN/FBI.

If a teller asks you where you got the money you are depositing and you say 'none of your business', expect your bank account will be closed.

Over $10K, you have to fill out a CTR report. If the deposits (or withdrawals) total $10K in a short time period (a month?), you will likely be on a structuring report that is looked at closer. A money order is counted as cash.

Even businesses that make daily deposits of 100% of their cash, get their accounts closed at times if it looks like structuring.

Whatever revenue you bring to the bank is not worth the bank paying a potential penalty for allowing money launderers. They rather close the account and be safe than take a chance.


A few notes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbiotic View Post
1. If you're transacting in non-cash, this whole thing is moot.
A money order is considered cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbiotic View Post
2. If you're transacting cash >10k, you're not capable of currency structuring, because every transaction is being reported.
If you are doing something out of your bank profile, they may suspect you are running a business from a personal account. Even though the transaction is reported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbiotic View Post
3. If you're transacting cash on both sides of 10k, you're fine. You really have to be super sketchy with multiple borderline transactions to trigger a special report.
If the total is > $10K, even if you go on both sides, you are not fine. It is still structuring if it is intentional. You may have to prove it was not intentional.
__________________

__________________
FIRE no later than 7/5/2016 at 56 (done), securing '16 401K match (done), getting '15 401K match (done), LTI Bonus (done), Perf bonus (done), maxing out 401K (done), picking up 1,000 hours to get another year of pension (done), July 1st benefits (vacation day, healthcare) (done), July 4th holiday. 0 days left. (done) OFFICIALLY RETIRED 7/5/2016!!
Senator is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Structuring will to protect profligate heir scrinch Other topics 12 01-29-2015 01:28 PM
Paying for High Quality Household Items and Living Below Your Means nico08 FIRE and Money 48 01-19-2011 08:14 PM
Vehicle Safety:IIHS Tests A Few Small Cars Against Medium Cars samclem Other topics 15 04-16-2009 01:29 PM
Help structuring my investing career...I'm at a crossroad. thefed Other topics 18 05-20-2006 10:39 AM
College Cost Sharing/Structuring TromboneAl Other topics 6 05-03-2005 08:34 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:59 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.