Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2011, 01:00 PM   #61
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
Thinking of SS planning as "gaming" makes me recall something about "being a winner at a loser's game
Now Isn't that the truth. I suspect that SS is indeed a loser's game for many on this forum. The question then is how do I best pick the least-worst option.

But, if it makes you feel better, then call it "How to win at Social Security"
__________________

__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-03-2011, 10:42 AM   #62
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,202
I suspect we will start DW SS when she is 62, just to have more money to travel then. With a 10 yr age difference, I'll put off my SS until at least age 67, then she could switch to a spousal benefit if it is worthwhile at that time. We have about 4.5 years to change our minds several more times...
__________________

__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 07:33 PM   #63
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,906
If I recall correctly, the ability to start collecting at 62, repay the amount collected and then start collecting a much higher amount at age 70 was administratively removed in a very short period of time without much notice or fanfare. There are quite a number of proposals suggested for "gaming" the system that would maximize the assumed lifetime SS collected. I would think that with declining finances in the public sector, the tendency will be to take the punch bowl away not keep it as it is. And as with the repayment rule change, there may not be a lot of notice given.

For myself, the ability to not take withdrawals from my own funds once I turn 62 (I'm 60 now) start collecting SS as soon as I'm eligible and maintain control of that amount not withdrawn from my own funds is very tempting...
__________________
ejman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 09:34 PM   #64
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejman View Post
If I recall correctly, the ability to start collecting at 62, repay the amount collected and then start collecting a much higher amount at age 70 was administratively removed in a very short period of time without much notice or fanfare. There are quite a number of proposals suggested for "gaming" the system that would maximize the assumed lifetime SS collected. I would think that with declining finances in the public sector, the tendency will be to take the punch bowl away not keep it as it is. And as with the repayment rule change, there may not be a lot of notice given.

For myself, the ability to not take withdrawals from my own funds once I turn 62 (I'm 60 now) start collecting SS as soon as I'm eligible and maintain control of that amount not withdrawn from my own funds is very tempting...
I did the payback, but with today's open discussion of whacking SS I would not have done this.

This SS crap is not necessary; it is just a return of the old conservative strategy of taking back both the New Deal and the Great Society. But this time it may just succeed.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:19 PM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
I did the payback, but with today's open discussion of whacking SS I would not have done this.

Ha
I'm not understanding, because if you truly are worried about SS, you can just go down to your SS office today and restart payments, right?

I'm feeling pretty certain that no whacking will be done to the benefits for those over age 55 or so, since those people can't go back and change their lives.

IOW, you can say, to a 25 year old "No more SS, but you'll be keeping more of your paycheck, and you'll just have to save more."

But you can't say, to a 62 year old "No more SS, and since you've already quit your job, we hope you like cat food."

Does that general reasoning make sense?
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:25 PM   #66
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
But you can't say, to a 62 year old "No more SS, and since you've already quit your job, we hope you like cat food."
One would wish/hope that the honor and integrity of our elected politicians would be sufficient to ensure that this could not happen.

But as the saying goes, "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride", and the days of trusting our elected government are pretty far behind us. So some of us are a little uneasy about the possible impact of future changes on baby boomers that are already retired.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:30 PM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,201
Also, if worried about the changes currently being considered for SS, look at examples of how minor and slow they are:

From: McClatchy Washington Bureau - Readability
1. Domenici and Rivlin want to slowly increase the amount of wages subject to Social Security payroll taxes. Currently, those taxes are collected on wages up to a maximum of $106,800, or 83 percent of total national wages. Over the next 38 years, the task force would gradually increase the amount to cover 90 percent of all wages, earning the program $542 billion from 2012 to 2030.
Obama's commission would do the same thing, reaching the 90 percent mark by 2050.

2. To better reflect inflation, the task force plan also would change the formula for annual cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security benefits. Their plan would slow the annual growth of benefits by an estimated three-tenths of a percentage point.

3. Under the task force plan, the highest-earning 25 percent of Social Security beneficiaries would also see smaller benefit growth beginning in 2023.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:36 PM   #68
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Does that general reasoning make sense?
Yes.
It is much easier to get the buy-in from the twenty somethings who 1) believe they will never get old, and 2) believe that they will never see a penny in SS benefits anyway.
__________________
Rustward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:42 PM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
I'm not understanding,
When you payback you hand over a large sum of money, that you figured you will get a future return on, based on the rules at the time.

There is no way you can get back that sum that you handed over, other than in the future payments that you hoped to get but now may not. If rules are changed, either the payback will be less, or the whole transaction may be at a loss.

People looking at what age to start today are looking at the same thing they always have, but with a considerably larger degree of insecurity that may favor taking it sooner rather than later, all other things being equal.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:47 PM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,201
Quote:
There is no way you can get back that sum that you handed over, other than in the future payments
OK, I see now, thanks. But I think you're pretty safe, and made a good decision.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:48 PM   #71
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Also, if worried about the changes currently being considered for SS, look at examples of how minor and slow they are:
Uh huh. We shall see.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 03:03 PM   #72
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
3. Under the task force plan, the highest-earning 25 percent of Social Security beneficiaries would also see smaller benefit growth beginning in 2023.
Even more reason to retire early -- plug a few years of "zero" in your SS earnings history and you may not be in the top 25%...
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 04:15 PM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,201
What do you think they mean by "highest-earning?" People with the highest salary during their last year of work?
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 04:25 PM   #74
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
What do you think they mean by "highest-earning?" People with the highest salary during their last year of work?
People with the most income as retirees, I would imagine. (?) I am thinking that would include dividends, SS, pension, annuities, etc. If so, then I would imagine that most on the board would be in the top 25%.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 06:54 PM   #75
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
GregLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waimanalo, HI
Posts: 1,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Does that general reasoning make sense?
No. If current or near term SS recipients are treated fairly, it won't happen through compassion or any sense of fairness. It could happen for other reasons, though.
__________________
Greg (retired in 2010 at age 68, state pension)
GregLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 07:40 PM   #76
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post

People looking at what age to start today are looking at the same thing they always have, but with a considerably larger degree of insecurity that may favor taking it sooner rather than later, all other things being equal.

Ha
Yup, you nailed it. That's exactly where I'm at as I look forward to my 61 st birthday. Theoretical calculations of hypothetical SS payouts under current rules are a lot of fun but the trend for public finances doesn't seem to me to be friendly to those that assume that present rules will continue indefinitely into the future.
__________________
ejman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 08:22 PM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
What do you think they mean by "highest-earning?" People with the highest salary during their last year of work?
No, adjusted gross income with certain add-backs, as is currently used to determine what a senior pays for Medicare coverage. 99% ikely to be this or a small variant of it.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 10:40 PM   #78
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
No, adjusted gross income with certain add-backs, as is currently used to determine what a senior pays for Medicare coverage. 99% ikely to be this or a small variant of it.

Ha
In that case one strategy would be to delay taking SS while you spend down all your assets, right? Reminds me of college financial aid -- with savers being penalized.

I'm not sure that us LBYMers will be in the top 25%, since we only need to take a small amount, say $50k per year from our retirement accounts.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 10:48 PM   #79
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
I'm not sure that us LBYMers will be in the top 25%, since we only need to take a small amount, say $50k per year from our retirement accounts.
The median income for those over 65 in 2009 was $18,001 according to this link.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 09:44 AM   #80
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
The median income for those over 65 in 2009 was $18,001 according to this link.
Well, shoot!
__________________

__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Delay taking pension? ER Fireball FIRE and Money 23 07-12-2011 09:38 AM
I'm ready to start stocking up on guns and canned goods here in Minnesota Hamlet FIRE Related Public Policy 12 07-11-2011 07:54 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:53 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.