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Old 07-14-2009, 01:27 PM   #61
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CFPs don't sell investments, they sell their advice and time. Period.
You are wrong. being a CFP does not mean you "take an oath" not sell investments or make commissions and/or fees.......

It means you have been certified by the College of Financial Planning to offer investment advice on areas like estate planning, college planning, etc. It is a very hard test but it does NOT mean you can't sell investments, annuities, whatever........
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:28 PM   #62
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The problem with FA as profession is that they combine the worse of lawyers (it generally takes years to judge results, highly situational dependent) with the lack of certification that you get with auto mechanics, handyman etc. I know we've seen a lot more complaints about financial planners this last 6 months than we saw 3 years ago. I also think that for people with decent math/money skills you can learn the basics of financial planning by reading 3 or 4 books from among the boards reading list. All in all I find by that the time you've acquired the knowledge to properly evaluate an FA skills, you've also got the knowledge to do it yourself.
There are 600,000+ registered FAs in the USA, how many have you seen in the papers, 6? 10?
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:30 PM   #63
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Careful with the term fee-based. That doesn't mean anything.
There is only one term that means fee-only, and that is "fee-only".
Everything else is a hand in your pocket, so you better be sure you know how deep it goes and how far.

Having said this, our clients pay a percentage of AUM that is split between our firm and the manager. We are not fee-only and I did not want to give the impression that the only reputable CFPs are those that are Fee-only, just that you want to be absolutely sure what that "based" part is all about.
Most fee-only planners are out of business. Once online brokers like Vanguard started bought the software and started marketing it to their members, the business model was toast. My latest count is NINE fee only planners that have went out of business in the past 4 years.........
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:11 PM   #64
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You are wrong. being a CFP does not mean you "take an oath" not sell investments or make commissions and/or fees.......

It means you have been certified by the College of Financial Planning to offer investment advice on areas like estate planning, college planning, etc. It is a very hard test but it does NOT mean you can't sell investments, annuities, whatever........
You've got some bad info my friend.

The College for Financial Planning is NOT the same thing as the Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards. The College, where I completed my educational component of the CFP requirements, is a fine institution, but does not grant use of the CFP marks.

Those are only given by the Board of Standards, upon completion of the educational program, the 10 hour comprehensive exam, a 3 year apprenticeship, and proof of a 4 year degree. There are also continuing education requirements.

I can't speak to the business model, but I know a number of fee only national organizations exist. Not everyone has to sell insurance and annuities to make it in the business, I don't think.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:04 PM   #65
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You've got some bad info my friend.

The College for Financial Planning is NOT the same thing as the Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards. The College, where I completed my educational component of the CFP requirements, is a fine institution, but does not grant use of the CFP marks.

Those are only given by the Board of Standards, upon completion of the educational program, the 10 hour comprehensive exam, a 3 year apprenticeship, and proof of a 4 year degree. There are also continuing education requirements.

I can't speak to the business model, but I know a number of fee only national organizations exist. Not everyone has to sell insurance and annuities to make it in the business, I don't think.
The point I was trying to make is that freebird stated that CFP's DON'T sell investments, which is NOT the case, obviously.......
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:53 AM   #66
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I got that, FD, but you know me...accuracy always. There's already enough misinformation out there about our hallowed and maligned profession. And I want these folks on the board to think you and I are the SMART ones.
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:22 AM   #67
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I got that, FD, but you know me...accuracy always. There's already enough misinformation out there about our hallowed and maligned profession. And I want these folks on the board to think you and I are the SMART ones.
The College provides the curriculum, the Board of Standards confers the mark.

BTW, the 3-year apprenticeship is not really an apprecticeship, it is 3 years of experience in financial services. The 4 year degree has been a standard for many years. I have not taken the exam but I have all the curriculum. My finance degree enables me to test out of 3 modules if I wish, based on a transcript review.

My business partner has been a CFP since 1988 and is an RIA. By the time he retired in 2-3 years, I will be a CFP.......
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:23 AM   #68
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And I want these folks on the board to think you and I are the SMART ones.
There's at least a hundred engineers on here that might beg to differ.....
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:35 AM   #69
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FYI #2.. After determining I only needed Mostly ALL BONDS for my retirement and some of them in Global and EMD's?

1. I went searching for a Bond Guru..
2. Comparing them to the Likes of Bill Gross @ PIMCO and Wm. Larkin -Cabot Mgmnt. /Kiplinger likes to refer too and some others
3. Most Did not Like just owning ALL Bonds and I suspect it was due to they could not make enough off them, buying and selling them for me..
4. Those that came up with Nice reports on their Recommended Ports with Equities and Some Bonds? I just pulled out my Ports on ALL Bonds and none hadn't beatne them for the past 5 & 10 yrs+ and I just got up and left..
5. Apparently Making their 1/2-1% annual Fee to mge my Account on $500k wasn't enough for them, basically just to be caretakers..
6. And to really put them on the defensive? Ask where THEIR Retirement $ is in? If they have A Decent Mid to Hig 6 or 7 figure one, they best be alot into bonds..
7. And a couple I had fun(d) with and Showed them a Port with just owning TGBAX and FNMIX funds for the past 11 yrs.. ( Ave +11.56% apy and 6.85% Ylds) and asked them why should I own anything else, let along your Index Equity and Bond Funds?
They tried to justify it by pushing the Lower Fee's in my face and That's a lame excuse.. Being a Penny Wise and A Dollar Foolish..
8. Another Putting on the Defense move? Ask if they came from an Insurance background? Most got started in that field..( I used to do Some Group Health and Life Ins. Yrs back an that is all most wanted to graduate upto, getting their Series 6,7 license and become a CFP and A CLU.. And many came from the ? Real Estate Business..
9. And I love Mark Hanes-Squakbox in the AM on CNBC.. he and I have similar Opinions and Personalities..I had him in my Limo a few times yrs ago and is down to earth and Ask's and tells it like it is..Like it or not..and his Personal Comments are ? Priceless.. Should be More like Him on CNBC

Bottomline? Most Want to Fund THEIR RETIREMENT with YOUR Retirement $..
LOL ;-)
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:54 AM   #70
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FYI #2.. After determining I only needed Mostly ALL BONDS for my retirement and some of them in Global and EMD's?

1. I went searching for a Bond Guru..
2. Comparing them to the Likes of Bill Gross @ PIMCO and Wm. Larkin -Cabot Mgmnt. /Kiplinger likes to refer too and some others
3. Most Did not Like just owning ALL Bonds and I suspect it was due to they could not make enough off them, buying and selling them for me..
4. Those that came up with Nice reports on their Recommended Ports with Equities and Some Bonds? I just pulled out my Ports on ALL Bonds and none hadn't beatne them for the past 5 & 10 yrs+ and I just got up and left..
5. Apparently Making their 1/2-1% annual Fee to mge my Account on $500k wasn't enough for them, basically just to be caretakers..
6. And to really put them on the defensive? Ask where THEIR Retirement $ is in? If they have A Decent Mid to Hig 6 or 7 figure one, they best be alot into bonds..
7. And a couple I had fun(d) with and Showed them a Port with just owning TGBAX and FNMIX funds for the past 11 yrs.. ( Ave +11.56% apy and 6.85% Ylds) and asked them why should I own anything else, let along your Index Equity and Bond Funds?
They tried to justify it by pushing the Lower Fee's in my face and That's a lame excuse.. Being a Penny Wise and A Dollar Foolish..

Bottomline? Most Want to Fund THEIR RETIREMENT with YOUR Retirement $..
LOL ;-)
Did you REALLY think you would find a bond "guru" as good as Bill Gross? Wow, that's interesting.........

Sounds like you had no intention of using an advisor and just wanted to show them up, and it ended badly........

BTW, most true equity FAs are not big bond guys.......
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:03 AM   #71
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The College provides the curriculum, the Board of Standards confers the mark.

BTW, the 3-year apprenticeship is not really an apprecticeship, it is 3 years of experience in financial services. The 4 year degree has been a standard for many years. I have not taken the exam but I have all the curriculum. My finance degree enables me to test out of 3 modules if I wish, based on a transcript review.

My business partner has been a CFP since 1988 and is an RIA. By the time he retired in 2-3 years, I will be a CFP.......
There are a number of other colleges providing the curriculum now, including the American College and my own hometown favorite, the College of Charleston. It is definitely not limited to only the College for Financial Planning, although that is where both of my bosses got their educations.

The four year degree program is in fact new, and had I been able to complete my educational component in a year's time, I would not have had to have the four year degree at all in order to have the CFP. But I knew it would take longer than that, so I resigned myself to the new requirements--they were effective March 1, 2007.

I would encourage you to take all of the modules, if for no other reason then to prepare for the exam. It is a mother! Not as hard as the CFA, of course, but for folks like me--way tough!

Congrats on working towards the CFP--it took me three years to complete the courses and two tries at the exam. I hope you are able to finish up much sooner!
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:14 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
FYI #2.. After determining I only needed Mostly ALL BONDS for my retirement and some of them in Global and EMD's?
...

4. Those that came up with Nice reports on their Recommended Ports with Equities and Some Bonds? I just pulled out my Ports on ALL Bonds and none hadn't beatne them for the past 5 & 10 yrs+ and I just got up and left..

LOL ;-)
So following that logic, if you went to them in Jan 2000 and they recommended a balanced portfolio, you would have shown them that a 100% stock portfolio would have beat them for the past 5 & 10 yrs+ and just got up and left..

-ERD50
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:27 AM   #73
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So following that logic, if you went to them in Jan 2000 and they recommended a balanced portfolio, you would have shown them that a 100% stock portfolio would have beat them for the past 5 & 10 yrs+ and just got up and left..

-ERD50
Like I said, he's not likely ever to be a client for an FA, but cherry-picking funds and stats to prove his point is quite funny, and looking for a "bond guru" like Bill Gross is flatout hilarious.......

I use PIMCO Total Return bond fund with clients because Bill Gross manages the fund. There's noone I have found that's smarter about bonds than him, but I never say never......
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