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Old 01-19-2010, 12:17 PM   #161
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I stand corrected. A homeless person can get food stamps.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:21 PM   #162
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By what measure?
Seriously? By just about any measure that you want to look at. Access to clean drinking water, access to free education, access to free healthcare at an ER, access to homeless shelters, police protection, life expectancy, income, etc etc.

Probably the easiest way to see the evidence is to look at the millions of people that risked their lives to be poor in this country illegally. How many homeless people are hopping on rafts hoping to drift to Haiti or Cuba?

I'm not saying life is easy for the poor in the US, but it isn't even comparable to being poor in a third world country.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:32 PM   #163
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Seriously? By just about any measure that you want to look at. Access to clean drinking water, access to free education, access to free healthcare at an ER, access to homeless shelters, police protection, life expectancy, income, etc etc.
Fair enough.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:34 PM   #164
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Woo! $143 for shelter costs. They can get a 3-bedroom apartment for that subsidy. Problem solved.
no (and if you had actually read the requirements you would know that wasnt referring to a subsidy but used for calculating net income), but the fact that it was in the requirements means they DO give food stamps to homeless people.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:53 PM   #165
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Bottom line: People go hungry in America.
Having rented homes to countless families below the poverty line over the last 20 years, I'ld say there is more of an obesity problem than a "hunger" problem among the poor.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:24 PM   #166
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The callousness of some of the people on this board never ceases to amaze me.

It's one thing to admit that you believe that anything you worked for is yours and yours alone, and that you did it without any help from anyone or from the government. If you can really justify a philosophy that feels good about stepping over bodies on the street because you believe that they had the same opportunities of you but were too lazy to capitalize on them, then live in your dream world. You are making questionable judgments about the mental, emotional, and spiritual state of other people, but at least there is no empirical evidence to the contrary since all is part of the "inner word." Of course, this ignores the question of such people's children and their "original sins."

However, to argue that poverty and it's attendant suffering doesn't really exist, and furthermore and that it's all much ado about nothing--this blows me away.

Some of you must lead very sheltered, unobservant lives. Keep your blinders on and keep telling yourself you are where you are due to your own merits.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:35 PM   #167
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Having rented homes to countless families below the poverty line over the last 20 years, I'ld say there is more of an obesity problem than a "hunger" problem among the poor.
The fact that you put quotation marks around 'hunger' leads me to believe that you don't think malnutrition and obesity can coexist?

Nutritional foods cost more money. The cheapest foods provide empty calories. It takes far more calories of these kinds of foods to constitute anything approaching adequate nutrition.

So perhaps the obesity among the poor is somewhat economically determined. I'm sure some of it is educational as well, but in some ways, people with less money have a harder time affording food that will help them not to be obese. They also may live in neighborhoods not conducive to jogging, can't afford the health club, and may not own bicycles.

DW and I are far from health-food nuts, nor are we vegetarians. We recently totalled up all our grocery bills and were quite surprised that fresh vegetables by far constituted the highest percentage. Vegetables are the most nutritionally dense food (most nutrients per calorie).
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:16 PM   #168
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I used to work at a homeless womens shelter. I was frequently surprised by how many were, err, heavyset. One day I asked the staff counselor. Her theory was that these people tended to eat more because of a feeling of scarcity. That is, they were afraid the food wouldn't always be there to consume, so enjoy it while you can. Seemed as good a theory as any other to me.

I find what I'm reading in this message board to be quite amazing.

It seems inarguable to me that there are poor in the US. Do we have the same grinding poverty as some 3rd world countries? Not at first blush. But that is not to say the poor in the US do not suffer horribly:
Do some poor in the US suffer from malnourishment? Check.
Do some poor in the US have nowhere to live, and no access to local
shelters? Check.
Do some poor in the US die from exposure? Check.
Do some poor in the US have inadequate or no healthcare? Check.
Do some poor in the US have inadequate access to quality education?
Check.
I am sure the list could go on much longer.

Those of you that are arguing that the US Gov't and Non-Governmental Entities have many services available to the poor (soup kitchens, shelters, etc.) need to realize that most poverty isn't just in our cities-where these amenities are likely to be. Most poverty is in our rural areas, where these services are not offered. To compound that, the rural poor can not afford the transportation to get into the cities where these services are offered.

Most of us on this board have no idea how blessed we are.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:32 PM   #169
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Having rented homes to countless families below the poverty line over the last 20 years, I'ld say there is more of an obesity problem than a "hunger" problem among the poor.
To repeat an ancient post - Nat Geo or some such did a ?Pima Indian study Mexican and U.S. sides of the border - the Mexican side having 'the lower standard' of living and closest to the 'old diet and lifestyle.' The visual difference was stunning. No need to mention medical, perceived quality of life, etc.

Which brings me to one of my early hero's - up there with Monty Python's Four Yorkshiremen et al. Tom and his wife both retired with small pensions - lived 'winters' in a small Mexican village without electricity, running water/indoor plumbing or any of that silly stuff - cooked on a flat rock over a fire soo to speak. When the snow melted in the Rockies they crossed the border to fire up their Winnie(kept at a friends) and headed north to enjoy summer.

I used to get evil looks when it appeared I was even contemplating taking our LBYM to that level.

heh heh heh - to stir the pot a little - there is poor and then there is poor - and then and then there is LBYM agressively as in 'cheap SOB.' - with style of course.
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Poverty now comes with a color TV
Old 01-19-2010, 04:37 PM   #170
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Poverty now comes with a color TV

Poverty now comes with a color TV - MSN Money
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:48 PM   #171
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You don't see these signs on the Mexican side of the border.
Attached Images
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:38 PM   #172
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You don't see these signs on the Mexican side of the border.
...If you did they would look like this.
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:40 PM   #173
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Nutritional foods cost more money. The cheapest foods provide empty calories. It takes far more calories of these kinds of foods to constitute anything approaching adequate nutrition.
Give me a break. Look at any thread where people are discussing the vanishingly low amounts that they spend on food. These are millionaires, on this board! Some may be a little unbalanced emotionally, but malnourished I doubt. In fact, they often tell us how much better their 40 cents a day spent on beans and rice nourishes them than the nasty old meat and veggies that some of the rest of us eat.

So beans and rice is good for millionaires, but makes poor people fat and malnourished? My heavens!

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Old 01-19-2010, 05:46 PM   #174
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You don't have to believe me or Bosco that healthy, low calorie food costs more. The USDA says so too.
Healthy, Low-Calorie Foods Cost More on Average

Quote from the linked article:

"If you have $3 to feed yourself, your choices gravitate toward foods which give you the most calories per dollar,'' Drewnowski said. "Not only are the empty calories cheaper, but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Fresh vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods."
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:01 PM   #175
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"If you have $3 to feed yourself, your choices gravitate toward foods which give you the most calories per dollar,'' Drewnowski said. "Not only are the empty calories cheaper, but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Fresh vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods."
Communist propaganda!

Not to mention that, for some, healthy food is simply not available.

Peer Reviewed: Diabetes Risk and Obesity in Food-Insecure Households in Rural Appalachian Ohio

"The relationship of obesity and food insecurity may be related to the low cost of energy-dense foods and reinforced by the pleasing taste of sugar and fat (27); however, food-insecure women do not seem to consume more high-fat, high-sugar, empty-calorie foods than their food-secure counterparts (28). "
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:16 PM   #176
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I see 20 or 30 beggars everyday, at least. I almost never see a fat beggar. So it may be that the average plugged-in USA poor person, especially of the female with children variety is fat, and has fat children too, it isn't because good food costs so much. It's because a lot of foods that she prefers are available and cheap enough that she can overeat.

I do agree that good food often costs a lot, but that does not to seem to be the consensus of this board. Food costs are way down the lists when people publish their expenditures.

Ha
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:16 PM   #177
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Communist propaganda!

Not to mention that, for some, healthy food is simply not available.

Peer Reviewed: Diabetes Risk and Obesity in Food-Insecure Households in Rural Appalachian Ohio

"The relationship of obesity and food insecurity may be related to the low cost of energy-dense foods and reinforced by the pleasing taste of sugar and fat (27); however, food-insecure women do not seem to consume more high-fat, high-sugar, empty-calorie foods than their food-secure counterparts (28). "

Edit: I should add that, as someone wrote above, binge-eating could be another cause of obesity in the poor.

"Periods of overeating when food is available, including binge-like patterns of eating (13) or fluctuations in eating habits that promote a metabolic-adaptive response, may also account for overweight and obesity among adults from food-insecure households."

Food-insecure definition:

"Conversely, food-insecure individuals and families have limited access to or availability of food or a limited or uncertain ability to acquire food in socially acceptable ways (1). In 2003, 11.2% of U.S. households were at some time food insecure (2); in 1999, when this study was conducted, 10.1% of U.S. households were at some time food insecure (3). Overall, households in rural areas experienced more food insecurity than those in metropolitan areas (2,3)."


Food-insecure households are about 25% (!) in Appalachia Ohio. Of course, if you believe the Heritage Foundation, we could just lower the poverty rate by lowering the income level needed to be declared poor.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:24 PM   #178
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So beans and rice is good for millionaires, but makes poor people fat and malnourished? My heavens!

Ha
Beans and rice are good for people of any means, but they don't constitute a healthy, balanced diet in and of themselves. Add in the brocolli, fruit, lettuce, tomatoes, etc. and you are getting there. Then compare the prices per nutrient and per calorie.

But somehow, I think you already know that.

If you've ever had large, hungry kids (don't know your personal situation), then you know that the cheapest way to fill them up is rice, macaroni and cheese, corn chips--in a word--STARCH.

Items high on the glycemic index (which contribute to type 2 diabetes and beer bellies) tend to be the cheapest. They are not unhealthy, if balanced with other more nutritious (and expensive) foods. But alone, they do not constitute good nutrition.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:36 PM   #179
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This is just my observation ... I appoligize - in advance - if it doesn't fit somebody's humanitarian goals:

The only starvation I've witnessed was among heroin addicts who would sell thier food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar. Then coast thru the next ten days high as kites completely oblivious to the bodies need for food. When the ride was over they gorge themselves ...sleep for several days. And wait or the next check. Took me 4 months to evict a group of 4 addicts.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:37 PM   #180
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I see 20 or 30 beggars everyday, at least. I almost never see a fat beggar.
I would think the homeless people have no way to cook their own food (even if they could scrape up some money to buy beans and rice) so yeah, I can understand that they are never heavy.

If I were poor, and hurting for money to the extent that I can only afford a buck or two for food (and had a kitchen to cook in), I will definitly buy pasta, beans or rice. $1 worth of any of these will keep me full for a long long time and I can get a lot of these for very little money. I won't go near meat or fruit or veggies if I had very little money. If I did that (eat pasta, rice and beans) for a prolonged period of time, I will probably get fat (and maybe even become diabetic), but I will probably be severely malnutritioned. (You can be fat and malnutritioned at the same time.)

Many children go to school hungry. I'm sure those kids have a hard time concentrating on school work and I'm sure malnutrition affects their brain development.
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