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Old 09-20-2008, 05:18 PM   #21
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What's RTC2? A new depression med?
Anti depression, of course. Just trust the government. Depression will be when our grandchildren get the bill.
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Old 09-20-2008, 05:44 PM   #22
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What's RTC2? A new depression med?
never heard of The Resolution Trust Corporation?
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Old 09-20-2008, 05:59 PM   #23
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Angry! Where’s the anger you say! I’m Angry!

I’m angry at a congress and an administration who sat back and said, “let’s do nothing, it’ll work itself out.” I’m angry at the all consuming greed of CEO’s and CFO’s and Boards of Director’s who said “fill my pockets anyway you can, and damn everyone else, including the country.”

And now they get bailed out for their greed, lack of common sense and terrible decisions.

You know what gets me? I sit at home wondering if the country is headed towards real chaos, while the CEO’s and CFO’s and the Boards of Director’s leave work in their limo’s, are driven home to their mansions, and are served dinner by their servants.

And now, we have no choice but to “trust” an administration that has done nothing but exhibit poor judgment and decision making for 8 years?

Reading the Draft of the Bill in the NYT article was positively scary.

Sorry for the Soapbox, but everyone keeps asking “where’s the anger?”
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Old 09-20-2008, 06:39 PM   #24
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I am not angry because I think turmoil presents opportunity. Bubbles are part of capitalism and greed is part of human nature.


Want2 also summarized the current situation pretty well. Door A. whatever Bernake and Paulson (who seem like smart, decent guys) tell us to do. Door B. is the end of civilization. Door C is unknown. A is painful, B. is horrible. and C is downright scary.
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Old 09-20-2008, 06:43 PM   #25
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Door A. whatever Bernake and Paulson (who seem like smart, decent guys) tell us to do. Door B. is the end of civilization. Door C is unknown. A is painful, B. is horrible. and C is downright scary.
I think I would choose door A. It is something like deciding to get the credit cards paid off once and for all, no matter how painful the process might be--too late to be mad about the maxed out balances, time to accept the reality and do something about it. It has to be done and at least there is a strategic plan that will be in place to do it.
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Old 09-20-2008, 06:45 PM   #26
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I am stunned that the current administration has been able to turn on a dime and apparently toss out 28 years of neo-con Gospel. The Treasury Secretary has been decisive. Even Bush has seemed to realize that they let things go to hell in a hand-basket. It reminds me of Microsoft when Gates finally "got" the Internet. I have a hard time deciding whether to be angry at the jerks who let this happen (but isn't that all of us?) or hopeful that the tide is actually turning and reason will prevail. Underneath it all I am pessimistic that we will simply muddle through this crisis and leave all the fundamental problems for our grand kids.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:27 PM   #27
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People aren't angry about the bailout because all the smart guys are telling them that it's either this or "the complete meltdown of our financial system".

Of course, those are the same smart guys who told us there was no housing bubble, mortgage backed securities were wonderful innovations that lowered mortgage interest rates while reducing system-wide risk, and that the worst was over last ___ (fill in blank with any month in the past year).

Most people don't remember that the smart guys got all the prior predictions wrong. Those that remember are still concerned that maybe the smart guys are right this time.

(One thing I think I know, when the gov't starts throwing around hundreds of billions of dollars, some of those smart guys are going to get really rich. That may be one reason why it looks like such a good idea to them.)
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:07 PM   #28
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I think first people react in disbelief. THEN they get angry once they accept the situation.

But actually, I think people are starting to get really angry. When Republican no less McCain starts calling for Chris Cox (SEC Chair) to be fired (which was reported on Thursday, I think), this indicates people are starting to get vocally angry.

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Old 09-20-2008, 08:33 PM   #29
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People are not angry because they are scared. Everyone is busy to make sure that their own assets are as secure as possible. The magnitude of things is still an unknown and changing daily. There is plenty of time in the future for people to get angry, especially if they have lost their job, home and bank account.
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:45 PM   #30
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I don't believe that the people of this nation will learn their lesson until we take one to the groin, until that occurs the deplorable behavior will continue.

If this $700B plan is the result of a lack of credit availability then why not just let the government become a banker to those that are credit worthy and let those that are not credit worthy experience a well deserved death?
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:51 PM   #31
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I have a hard time deciding whether to be angry at the jerks who let this happen (but isn't that all of us?)
That may well be the problem, too many people to blame. Righteous indignation needs a good villain but our crowd of culprits is too vast:

1) Home buyers: Who borrowed more then they should (some of them lying on loan applications to do it) to buy houses they thought would only go up in value

2) Mortgage brokers/lenders: Who downplayed risky loans and convinced people they could really buy more house then they could afford . . . "did you know houses only go up in value? They aren't making any more land, you know?"

3) Investment Banks: Who, as always, pushed innovation (in this case securitization) to its breaking point (folks really should have know the gig was up once they started peddling securitizations of securitizations).

4) Rating agencies: Who improperly assessed the risk of Wall Street's new innovations giving them the appearance of a free lunch.

5) Institutional Fixed Income investors: Who in their greed for yield were all too willing to buy the free lunch Wall Street was selling.

6) Democratic Politicians: Who pushed commercial banks hard to "not discriminate against low income borrowers" . . . now also known as "sub-prime"

7) Republican Politicians: Who believed the market could and would regulate it self.

8) FASB (the accountants): Who force companies to mark their investments to market even when there is no market that accurately reflects the securities fair value.

9) Federal regulators: Who thought it was just peachy if investment banks leveraged themselves 30:1 and GSE's more so.

10) Commercial banks: Who skirted capital requirements by borrowing off balance sheet through Structured Investment Vehicles.

11) The Federal Reserve: Whose free money policy inflated the housing bubble in the first place.
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:55 PM   #32
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That may well be the problem, too many people to blame. Righteous indignation needs a good villain but our crowd of culprits is vast:
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:10 PM   #33
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I agree with everythign BanDit1 said. In addition I'm angry at the SEC and Federal Reserve. I'm not the brightest bulb, but I could see the high tech bubble being shifted to the housing market. We should have let the high tech bubble play itself out when it was contained to the high tech industry instead of moving it to mainstream america. Reading the latest Greenspan quotes makes my blood boil.

In addition, we all saw what was happening with the mortgage lending and the excess liquidity in the economy. Where were the regulators then? It's like they saw the problem happening and sat back and did nothing. Now they are in react mode.

In addition, as savers we all know we need to plan ahead. The Government has known about the bell curve of the aging population and the drain it will create on Social Security, Medicare, etc. Instead of planning for it the Feds have gone on a spending spree.

We have met the enemy and it is us. I feel like the decision makers have created the perfect storm. We could have avoided the situation we are in by making better decisions, and those decisions did not require a crystal ball. It required long term thinking and common sense.

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Angry! Where’s the anger you say! I’m Angry!

I’m angry at a congress and an administration who sat back and said, “let’s do nothing, it’ll work itself out.” I’m angry at the all consuming greed of CEO’s and CFO’s and Boards of Director’s who said “fill my pockets anyway you can, and damn everyone else, including the country.”

And now they get bailed out for their greed, lack of common sense and terrible decisions.

You know what gets me? I sit at home wondering if the country is headed towards real chaos, while the CEO’s and CFO’s and the Boards of Director’s leave work in their limo’s, are driven home to their mansions, and are served dinner by their servants.

And now, we have no choice but to “trust” an administration that has done nothing but exhibit poor judgment and decision making for 8 years?

Reading the Draft of the Bill in the NYT article was positively scary.

Sorry for the Soapbox, but everyone keeps asking “where’s the anger?”
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:47 PM   #34
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Resolution Trust Corporation, 2nd round. The RTC (1) disposed of the assets of failed savings & loans in the 1980s.
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:50 PM   #35
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I'm ready to take my family and money to a country that has its $hit together.

But I'm too much of a fat, lazy American to figure out which one. Norway?

-CC
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:51 PM   #36
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We are angry. You can see it in the election... the traditional politicians are absent.

Even McCain's words are causing traditional Republican Politicians to squirm in their seats.
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:52 PM   #37
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I'm ready to take my family and money to a country that has its $hit together.

But I'm too much of a fat, lazy American to figure out which one. Norway?

-CC
Haven't you heard? We have a global economy..there is no escape.
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:10 PM   #38
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:15 PM   #39
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For years I've told people that I don't invest internationally because the corruption and lack of transparency in foreign markets make it impossible to know whether your investment is actually going where you think.

This incident shows that even the US stock market, which is generally held as an example of one of the least corrupt, most transparent markets, is indeed full of corruption and opaqueness.

I must say I'm still a believer in the US though... I think that other countries markets are probably more in need of regulation and anticorruption crackdowns. At least here in the US we generally have rule of law; in countries that don't have real rule of law regulations will be no help. I suspect that after we start regulating the heck out of the US SEC, there's going to be another round of other countries cleaning up their markets as much as possible, as investors once again realize that oversight is important.
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:22 PM   #40
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People will get angry when the negative impacts start to take effect, such as tax increases and budget cuts to social programs.
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