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Old 09-20-2008, 10:25 PM   #41
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never heard of The Resolution Trust Corporation?
Oops, sorry. I wasn't paying proper attention. I tend to lump all these things under the general term "gummint".
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:41 PM   #42
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:45 PM   #43
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Norway?
Well, they've got lots of tall blond women. And sausage is considered a quality vegetable.

I'll take those two attributes over stock market returns anyday. Whoops. My wife says I dont.

Never mind...
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:30 AM   #44
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Mad? I'm O-U-T-R-A-G-E-D!

I can only think of two times in the last 8 years that I felt a sense of outrage. The first was 9/11. The second is our Government's actions (or inaction) leading up to the present financial crisis. What I feel is akin to Betrayal -- an worst yet it was from within. I feel that Government officials have put their own interests, or the interests of those they cater to, before the good of the country. That comes close to treason in my way of thinking. I simply find it incredible to believe that our Government officials couldn't see this train wreck coming. Either they knew, or they were so fixated on lining their own pockets and those of the special interests that they represent that they just didn't care. If one takes a more charitable view, they were simply grossly incompetent.

Americans are, by and large, a tolerant and forgiving people. But, in my view, this is something we should not tolerate, nor should we forgive. We've been betrayed. We've been sold out. Those responsible should, at the very least, be shown the door this November.
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:03 AM   #45
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Just talked to my mom in NE. She's concerned more than angry (and will probably still vote R even after I reminded her of who Phil Gramm is). She knows what SIPC is.

But she says none of her friends talk about any of this.. economy, world affairs, politics.. they just don't wanna know. She told me that a few years back she kept saying to them "these houses can't be worth X; it makes no sense" but they didn't see a problem (these are all older people who've been living in the same place practically forever). She thinks they just can't process it abstractly or just assume it doesn't concern them.

Then she went on to tell me of how she wanted to cash in her savings bonds . She went to the bank and the teller advised her not to. (yay) I asked her if she needed the cash and she said "no". I said but you're probably getting 4%.. how are you going to match that with a bank or with T-bills? She said "well, I haven't decided yet"... I told her to give me the series and the dates and I would check the value/status for her online. Mom: "I don't want that information *out there*". Me: "*out where?* It's public information; it's not tied to you". Mom: "I'll have Eddie the lawyer deal with it."

So you see what we are dealing with..

Geoffrey, it is indeed a massive betrayal.
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:52 AM   #46
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Mad? I'm O-U-T-R-A-G-E-D!
I simply find it incredible to believe that our Government officials couldn't see this train wreck coming.
Is it really so unbelievable that a bunch of Washington bureaucrats couldn't see this coming? When nearly all sophisticated investors missed it. Professional economists missed it (including Bernanke). Wall Street CEO's missed it (and don't for a minute kid yourself thinking that Wall Street CEO's wouldn't have tried to short the hell out of these bad securities if they new they were going to zero). Mortgage lenders missed it. Federal regulators missed it. The rating agencies missed it.

The list of people who didn't miss it would fit neatly on a 3x5 index card, double spaced. (Most of those folks are very, very wealthy right now, btw)
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:59 AM   #47
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:04 AM   #48
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Fear!......... Don't rock the boat, We all are in it................ is the main reason. Wrong reason but I think it is just that.

Now this thing is getting totally out of hand: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13690.html

Now they want to bail out the FOREIGN Banks that hold sub prime mortgages. Anyone want to bet what that is going to cost the AMERICAN taxpayers? ($700 Billion will not be enough)!
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:32 AM   #49
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Some advice I received a long time ago "put your faith in man or money and you will always be disappointed"...
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:56 AM   #50
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most of the people i know are not angry because they aren't sure who to be angry with.

people are very afraid and unsure what will happen "next." i think people have to understand what is going on to be angry - you have to have a clear sense of your "rights" to understand that they were violated.

i think this war, this election and the economy should spur people to beef up their citizen awareness and not rely on everyone else to tell them what to think . but that seems like wishful thinking to me too - maybe just in terms of the scale i would love to see vs what we will see.

i don't listen much to npr, but one morning did hear some analyst talk about how fragile the financial industry was and how little it would take to make the card house fall - i don't know the specifics of what he was referring to, but mostly about how they borrow millions from each other on a daily basis to keep themselves going - but i had my dose of thinking that it was just some uber lefty sensationalizing something (yes, i have those thoughts about all sides) - so just filed it to the back of my head. guess the guy was right and i owe him a mental apology...
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:22 PM   #51
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I will show my anger on election day.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:53 PM   #52
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Well, they've got lots of tall blond women. And sausage is considered a quality vegetable.

I'll take those two attributes over stock market returns anyday. Whoops. My wife says I dont.

Never mind...

I know. I snagged one of those blonds myself. Then she goes and claims German heritage on me. Best of both worlds.

Tastes like more.

-CC
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:29 PM   #53
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We have seen the enemy and he is us. Well a lot of us anyway, of course not including the participants in this forumn.

I think instant gratification is so ingrained in our culture today that only a gut wrenching dperession will change our ways.

2soon2tell
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:52 PM   #54
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I will show my anger on election day.
What are you going to do? Boycott the election?

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Old 09-21-2008, 06:45 PM   #55
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Could someone please tell me why the average citizen is not angry about what is now taking place?
IMO there are at least two reasons:
1) Most people don't understand the complexity of what's going on. I'll admit I'm ignorant of many of the things that go on behind the scenes in our credit markets. I'd say less than 5% of Americans understand what a bank's reserve ratio is.

2) The bailout being offered is marketed at helping main street America. While I believe it's the wrong approach (and I've already written my Congressional members), you have Henry Paulson on TV this morning telling citizens that this is better than the alternative.

I say let the markets work. I agree that in the short term it would be very bad. Banks would fail, people would lose their homes, and so on. Our country needs a good dose of reality. Then maybe in 2-3 years we'll get our act together and all be smarter about our borrowing and spending habits.

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Old 09-21-2008, 06:46 PM   #56
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We have seen the enemy and he is us. Well a lot of us anyway, of course not including the participants in this forumn.

I think instant gratification is so ingrained in our culture today that only a gut wrenching dperession will change our ways.

2soon2tell
Well said...take a look at my post above and you'll see we think alike.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #57
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They dont care:

Poll: Americans shrug off crisis - MSN Money
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:00 PM   #58
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add the word "yet". Once this is all said and done I think many will care...I just don't think it's directly affecting them yet.
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:19 PM   #59
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add the word "yet". Once this is all said and done I think many will care...I just don't think it's directly affecting them yet.
I agree. For the average American, what has really changed? I woke up this morning, got my coffee, got the paper, had eggs for breakfast, etc.

Yes, My NW has dropped this year, but it has risen for each of the past 4 years (since FIRE). Not everyone on the planet maxed out their house equity, etc. Now, if unemployment hits really high levels, inflation goes crazy, etc, yep, they average person is going to be screaming. Geez, look at all the blabber we heard about $4 gas, you'd think it was the end of civilization. Well, gas is still that high, and people have settled into the idea, and made some adjustments. But the world didn't end.

So we will need to see what unfolds. I had some crazy 17% mortgage on my first single-family house. As scary as that sounds, I just got up in the morning, went to work, came home, got my paycheck, paid the bills. Life went on. So we will see.

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Old 09-21-2008, 11:14 PM   #60
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Life does go on. California hasn't had a budget for months, but frankly it hasn't yet made any impact on my daily life as a Californian.

It's kind of insidious how many of our societal ills manifest as slowly creeping inflation. People are already noticing inflation, and as it gets worse it will be on everyone's minds. But everyone will just blame the inflation on Bush, who will be out of office, and they'll probably not make the connection to the bailout.
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